kayakfish
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Small Baitcasting Outfit?
Hi guys,
Great site! I live on Pittwater, NSW and have just begun kayak fishing after a lot of land based/boat fishing. I love it. I fish lures pretty much exclusively, both HB and SP.
Just a question for those with a bit more technical knowledge - I want a neat little baitcasting outfit for flathead, rat kingies, school tuna, Aus salmon and i have found a reel and rod combo that will apparently cast lures down to 1/16 of an ounce. This sounds great but i thought that the whole problem with baitcasters was that they can't cast really light lures thus the need for small spin reels. The combo sounds great but it sounds too good to be true...?
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26/Mar/2005, 10:23 am
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The Mariner
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Re: Small Baitcasting Outfit?
Welcome to the Forum kayakfish 
I'm sure the members will put in their 2 cents worth on your question.
Please take the time to add your location into your member profile & maybe even create your own 'signature' with the sort of kayak you fish from. It sure helps us all to get to know you better.
The Dawn Prawn Kayak Fishing Club members are sure to try & convince you to head to Mona Vale on one of their competition days too, so be prepared !
--- Regards,
Phil.
Forum Administrator.
Visit www.hookedonkayaks.com.au for kayaks and kayak fishing accessories. |
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26/Mar/2005, 6:48 pm
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bent1
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Re: Small Baitcasting Outfit?
Hi Mate, what model reel, rod and what line weight will you be using. In my experience, a highly tuned small baitcaster such as a 1500/1600 abu classic, smallest daiwa millionaire and calcutta 50 will cast 2 grams up in the hands of a competent caster using a high modulas graphite rod, light enough in the tip to load up with this cast weight and using 3kg braid or fused superline.
Such an outfit would struggle with any legal size king unless it was hooked well away from structure. Such a reel would need to be tuned every 4-6 trips by removing the old lubes and relubing with a low inertia tourament casting lube.
My 1500 abus cast that weight but i have custom lightweight spools on them and regularly tune them as well as fishing them on top shelf custom high modulas graphite rods such as Loomis IMX SJR6400's.
Any rod casting weights that light will not cast anything over about 5-6 grams effectively due to the tip being overloaded.
catch ya bent
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"Katana" OK Prowler XT
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26/Mar/2005, 6:51 pm
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kayakfish
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Re: Small Baitcasting Outfit?
Well Bent,
I was thinking of a black diamond "bass predator" 3-6kg rod (high modulus graphite) paired with a Japanese spec Daiwa Alphas. The reel can only be imported in Japan but apparently the are the goods. Drag can be set up to 5kgs.
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27/Mar/2005, 10:51 am
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bent1
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Re: Small Baitcasting Outfit?
Hi Mate, i have just tried to research that reel. The worlds finest tackle guru, Jun from Japan Tackle doesn't list a spool weight on the alphas. Are you talking about a standard Alpha or the alpha itos. the itos are close to the apex of Japanese daiwa product which will literally mean they are some of the best reels in the world. I would recommend having a suss at japantackle.com as they detail all of the top shelf gear.
The finest small casting reels would be the Abu ZPI AE74 Morrums but these are over $800 american and due to their magnesium spools are freshwater only reels.
This will not neccessary mean however that they will cast 2 grams as obviously with an overhead reel, the spool spins as opposed to being fixed like any other sort of reel. this means that a certain amount of enertia is required to start the spool spinning and to keep the spool spinning.
This is why my abus have custom spools from Jun at Japan tackle as these weigh 6.6 gram in comparrison to the 15.8 gm standard spool. Add ceramic bearings and you have a casting machine. The world 18gm casting record is held by a 2500 abu which features Jun's custom spool and ceramic bearings.
What i guess i am trying to say is, no matter how high a quality the reel and its bearings are, if the spool weight is too great then it will not cast light weights. The other problem is that the more line you put on a spool, the more weight is has, so that these light casting spools are shallow and do not have the line capacity for pelagic fish.
I would also not be putting a reel of that quality on a black diamond, i would be insisting on a high quality custom and with what you will spend on your reel i would be looking at a IMX loomis with fuji titanium nitrite guides.
These guides will set you back around $400-500 for the rod but will make a huge difference in performance. They are literally the ultimate guides.You should be able to get one of these rods built with grade a portugese cork for around $800-1000 depending on who builds it for you.
Black diamonds don't even use fuji guides, they use chinese or korean guides which they brand with their own brand name. A IMX custom loomis with Fuji Alconite guides will cost you around $500 and is a lot of rod for the money.
i think you are expecting to much from the one outfit. To cast light weights and then to sportsfish for small pelagics are two entirely different fishing scenerios and if a reel is ideal for one of those purposes it will be less than ideal for another. Its reasons like this why fanatics have large tackle collections as when we start to both specialise and also appreciate top shelf gear we need an balanced outfit for each of our angling scenerios.
In conclusion mate, in my 15 years in the tackle trade doing R&D work, reel tuning and custom rod building i have come to the conclusion that nothing beats top shelf japanese daiwa gear for reels and the same goes for IMX loomises as long as they get top shelf fuji componentry fitted to them when they are custom built.
A reel like the one you are describing will be worth every cent you pay for it and speaking from experience, words won't describe how good you will feel when you use gear like that. if you decide to go an alpha, if you get it from jun it will be tuned by Mr mega Bass Ito who is the world leader in reel tuning.
hope this helps Bent
Last edited by bent1, 27/Mar/2005, 9:48 pm
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"Katana" OK Prowler XT
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27/Mar/2005, 6:49 pm
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Yak Man
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Re: Small Baitcasting Outfit?
Once again, great post Bent. Your knowledge of fishing blows me away.
Welcome to the site kayakfish.
If you get the urge to do a bit of comp or off shore kayakfishing contact me and I will introduce you to the Dawn Prawners.Great bunch of blokes who are all keen to share their kayak fishing knowledge.
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Regards, Phil (O.K. Prowler).
**************************
Dawn Prawn Kayak Fishing Club.
Mona Vale Beach.
**************************
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30/Mar/2005, 7:50 pm
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kayakfish
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Re: Small Baitcasting Outfit?
Ok Bent,
i get what your saying and i think you are dead right, spool is far too shallow for pelagics (100 yards of 12lb!!!). What about hard bodies/SPs for flathead? Will be using braid so should get a couple more yards on the spool...
I was thinking maybe flathead as well as a nice general purpose light/medium freshwater outfit...
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31/Mar/2005, 11:52 am
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bent1
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Re: Small Baitcasting Outfit?
Goodaye Kayakfish, mate that reel would be ideal for a flattie spin outfit using HBs (hardbodys) and SPs (soft bodys). The only thing is you will not cast bream sized jigheads using SPs on it effectivly in any sort of wind due to a bream size SP jighed being either a 1/32oz or a 1/16oz jighead. For 1/4 oz flattie jigheads it will be awesome.
I would seriously look at another rod though due to (in my opinion) black diamond offering poor value for money in comparrison to other brands and custom builds and also its unrealistic line rating 3-6kg. It will struggle at either end of that line range and likely be a good 4kg stick. I always used to fish 3kg customs for bass, yellowbelly when i lived in N.S.W and east coast cod on my occasional east coast cod trips and never found them to be lacking in power.
While on occasion i had to point the rod tip almost at the fish and put the thumbs on the spool to pull a good fish away from structure, i never lost a fish due to being outclassed and these lighter rods will cast much better and allow you to fish around a kilo and a half of strike drag.
A short rod of 5'2'' to 5'6'' of which small trigger grip rods generally are now will also cast far more accurately. Go something with a superfast taper and you will have something light in the tip to cast light weights and something with a solid butt to control an steer a solid fish heading for structure.
Hope this helps
catch ya bent
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"Katana" OK Prowler XT
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3/Apr/2005, 10:05 am
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