Re: Jewish Oral Tradition and the Torah Hi Andy, Portia:
I have been following along with what you are discovering. I haven't been doing any homework, so I have nothing to contribute but questions...
What you are discovering really is very interesting. Very. Thanks for going to the effort!
quote:
AndyS333 wrote:
Hey Onslow,
I think we'll gain a deeper understanding of our Christian faith when we learn more about the faith of the Jews. Seems to me we'll also understand more of Scripture since a lot of it was written by Jews and for Jews.
That is a seemingly minor, but actually very important truth Andy.
By coincidence, I have actually been reading through the Pentateuch (I'm in Numbers), much of it for the first time. And, this concept of a parallel oral tradition being passed on would solve some things. From time to time I get the impressioin that there is more to the story floating around than they explicitly tell you. Some of the strange things that happen (example: Balaam's donkey, or what exactly Moses did to get God so mad at him) which you can't understand why the authors didn't give you some more explanation about - maybe they figured the Jewish reader would know the rest of the story.
By coincidence, I have actually been reading through the Pentateuch (I'm in Numbers), much of it for the first time. And, this concept of a parallel oral tradition being passed on would solve some things. From time to time I get the impressioin that there is more to the story floating around than they explicitly tell you. Some of the strange things that happen (example: Balaam's donkey, or what exactly Moses did to get God so mad at him) which you can't understand why the authors didn't give you some more explanation about - maybe they figured the Jewish reader would know the rest of the story.
You're absolutely right Onslow!
I think that's the same point the Jewish authors make in their presentation of the Jewish Oral Torah.
I'm really fascinated by all this. Need to do some more digging, but wish there was a practicing Jew who could help out. Let's practice what we've learned and get some of that Oral Torah "orally" (or at least typed by a living practicing Jew).
Otherwise, we're struggling ourselves trying to understand the written word alone. That would kind of be like a Jew trying to learn how to be a Jew just by reading the Old Testament. They would really need another Jew to help them because (at least to me) the OT assumes the existence of a community of practicing Jews in which to learn all the things contained in Scripture.
Re: Jewish Oral Tradition and the Torah Hi! MartiW asked me to pop in here. I am a practicing Orthodox Jew and can probably answer many of your questions.
I think that your posts have largely addressed the issue, but let me summarize:
1. There is really no such thing as an intelligible written text without some kind of oral tradition that explains it. At the very least, the oral tradition carries the context, including meanings and connotations of words. It also includes current practices and assumptions. In the current case, it would be proper to say that the Torah must be read in the context of the Oral Tradition.
2. For the first 1600 years since the giving of the Torah, the oral tradition was most emphatically oral; in fact, it was considered improper to publish a written version (even assuming that it would be meaningful, as oral tradition is inherently non-linear). In about 200 CE, the head of the Sanhedrin, Rabbi Judah haNasi (aka "Rebbe") determined that the Roman oppression and dispersion was a serious threat to preservation of the Oral Tradition, and therefore ruled that it was essential to organize and publish the Mishna, a summary of oral tradition in terse Hebrew. That of course required its own oral tradition to be understood, and the discussions on the Mishna over the next several centuries were collected into what we call the Gemara. The Talmud is basically the Mishna and Gemara - and of course has its own commentaries (the process never ends).
3. Oral tradition also includes precedents established when particular situations are encountered. Nowadays, a rabbi seeking to understand how a new situation must be handled looks through the many works which record this tradition, seeking a situation to which it can be likened and on which a ruling has already been established.
Re: Jewish Oral Tradition and the Torah Russ
thank you so much for stopping in and taking up this topic/answering these questions.
Much appreciated.
to P and F.
God bless,
p4p
in fact i'll give this thread a 'sticky' so it will be easy to find
Last edited by praying4patience, 11/9/2006, 10:32 pm
Re: Jewish Oral Tradition and the Torah There is a lot of people here with heads about to explode. And only you can save them from the wrath of Sir Meow Mix!
Welcome.
--- Guilty people wear pumpkins for Landmine Awareness Day.
I haven't been doing any homework, so I have nothing to contribute but questions...
Russ
to P and F.
