and the fact that in the last campaign he was also everything Obama is now?
How so? Everything I have read and seen about McCain indicates that he has always voted against abortion, that he has been consistently against it.
And if he was everything Obama is now and you detest him, why would you vote for Obama? I don't understand.
quote:
but McCain lost on similiar grounds from plain speaking about pro abortion. Ok so he flip flopped for this election? Or did he have some sort of conversion?
McCain has never been proabortion. The National Right to Life statement on McCain:
quote:
National Right to Life is also grateful for the strong pro-life voting record on abortion of Senator John McCain, and appreciates the pro-life position he has taken in his Senate campaigns and in this presidential campaign. (Link provided in previous quote)
Senator Brownback, who was endorsed by Father Pavone before he dropped out, has endorsed McCain and wrote this article for the National Catholic Register:
According to Nancy Keenan, President of NARAL Pro-Choice America:
quote:
The Myth of the “Moderate Maverick” - Sen. McCain has a 25-year record of voting against women’s freedom and privacy.
- He has even gone so far as to call for the overturn of Roe v. Wade.
- On the 35th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, Sen. McCain stated, “If I am fortunate enough to be elected as the next president of the United States, I pledge to you to be a loyal and unswerving friend of the right-to-life movement.”
Click here to read more.
Check out NARAL Pro-Choice America’s 14-page summary of Sen. McCain’s votes against birth control, measures that would protect women and doctors from violence at reproductive-health clinics, and funding for teen- pregnancy-prevention programs, and much, much more.
If there is a NARAL hit list I am on it. I have testified before one or another congressional committee in favor of almost every important pro-life law proposed in the last decade. I testified as an expert in constitutional law for laws against partial-birth abortion, human cloning, and killing unborn children (save in the course of a lawful abortion). The last one is technically about “feticide”; it was formally styled Unborn Victims of Violence Act. More popularly, it came to be known as “Laci and Connor’s Law,” for the mother and her (unborn) child who were killed by Scott Peterson a few years ago in California.
I also testified for The Born Alive Infants’ Protection Act. This law says that once a baby is actually delivered from the womb — even if delivery occurs during a “botched” abortion — that newborn baby is, legally speaking, a person. He or she may not be killed, just as no other person may be killed. NRO friend Hadley Arkes drafted this law, and worked tirelessly for its passage. John McCain supported all these laws. And I support him for President.
...
Of the remaining pro-life Republicans, none can match McCain’s record of opposing abortion. He has served in Congress for 24 years, and cast a lot of votes on abortion legislation during that time. His record is not merely exemplary — it is perfect. McCain’s votes on abortion really could not be better. A campaign advertisement in South Carolina says of John McCain: “Pro-life. Not just recently. Always. Never wavering.” The ad is true.
...
Twenty-four years of service at the national level — almost all of them in the Senate — make a big difference when we are talking about the next President, compared to candidates who have been small-state governors. There is no need to speculate or to rely upon promises or take matters on faith when it comes to McCain and abortion. He has demonstrated himself to be the best pro-life choice.
McCain has said — it is true — that he approved embryo-destructive research in the limited case of so-called “spares”— those embryos “left-over” after couples have exhausted their interest in IVF. I disagree with him.In face-to-face conversation with McCain I said not only that such research was wrong, but that it would never be limited to “spares.” I said that big biotech needed a far larger supply of research subjects than “spares” could provide. McCain asked to continue that conversation, to hear more. Now he realizes that there is no need to exploit “spare” embryos, in light of recent successes with adult cells. And so he has been telling South Carolinians over the last few days.
...
Identifying the best presidential pro-life candidate is very largely about judges, as well as particular issues. The next president is likely to (no one can say for sure, of course) have a couple of vacancies on the Supreme Court to fill. Given the Court’s present makeup and who is likely to be replaced, these two nominations will either tip the balance against Roe, or confirm it once again for a whole generation. For if the Court revisits the question of Roe’s basic validity in, say, 2010, it will not do so again for a very long time.(The last time was Planned Parenthood v. Casey, in 1992.) McCain’s “model” of a Supreme Court Justice are — he has said — Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia.
Re: Why did Mike Huckabee take stem-cell money? I wanted to clear something up.I wasn't suggesting that Fr.Mark was running a smear campaign against Huckabee.What i was wondering if the original story didn't originate with a smear campaign.
I'm just being cautious.You don't know what to believe or not believe without digging deep for these facts during an election.Ppl drag things out all the time.
The best thing to do is question Mike Huckabee directly on the issue itself and get a straightforward answer.
Mike Huckabee has a point though:While overturning Roe v Wade would be a symbolic victory for the pro life movement(and that in itself would be gr8!)the truth is it would simply send it back to the states where each state could decide.
I mainly wanted to clear it up with Portia so she would know that i wasn't making any kind of accusation against Fr. Mark at all!!
God bless,
p4p
Re: Why did Mike Huckabee take stem-cell money? Fact of the matter is with McCain: he was at one time a supporter of Roe vs. Wade and a supporter of women's rights to abortion. My mother wouldn't vote for him on those grounds then.
Those were heated debates then.
I understand that there are a lot of people out there saying "Oh, no! He was always a supporter, go look at his record"
Go look at some of the other links, like the one I posted. When someone has a strong, and I mean strong, personality and forceful conviction, and opinions that have run counter to my faith, unless I see remorse on this topic, and not some "let me hear more..." and then a simple flip... forget it.
To condone taking a life and not being sorry for it, is repugnant.
Now let me say this: I think Obama is better based on the other policies outside of abortion. That AND he hasn't been near as flip flopping as I have seen. He takes a more conservative stand on some issues than most Dems.
If I had a voting choice between a rat and a hamster, I would vote the hamster. I can cage the hamster far easier than a rat. I can toy with it too, by placing it in a ball (congressional confining). I can teach it tricks if I really wanted to.
But I don't want a hamster either. And so I don't get one.
I have cats. I love cats. They are pro life like me, except for two that are problem children.
Persian, is my Barack Obama. He kills what moves on the menu. Am forever trying to save the mouse or cotton tail he catches. 90% of the time, they are dead.
Boo is my Hillary Clinton. She is a passionate feline and just as female. She thinks she owns the place. She catches mice and toys with them till your back is turned.
Kitty, the Maincoon, is a Huckabee. He has no enemy, accepts all cats from the get go, and is loyal to the family (no joke, am not making this up) He had a broken leg when we found him and is a push over for a cat. But looking at him you would think he is a mini tiger in waiting.
And yes I have Jay. Dumb Cat. He resembles a war torn igit. Sometimes mean, sometimes not, but when in a fight he carries his own. He had this stray all over him, loving him and now I got her two kittens in the house tearing it up. He lets them play all over him to a point then lashes at them. He sometimes bites to grab attention, and sometimes once to be let alone. I have had him on me porch torn up from more fights than I can count. He is my McCain.
But I aint voting for my cats. And I aint wasting my vote for a Democrat. And I wont vote for a flip flopping Republican.
Now if you wanna say "well you said you would vote for Obama over McCain.." go ahead. I aint voted for either one yet. And I won't now. or Ever.
Does that mean that my conviction is strong for not desiring to vote for anyone who EVER supported abortion in any way?
Re: Why did Mike Huckabee take stem-cell money? A guy posted this comment on a blog for Huckabee:
He gave us permission to use it anywhere as long as he remained anonymous.Not sure why;but respecting his requeset.
Here tis
"While most people on my street and in may immediate circle of friends support Mr. Huckabee, unfortunately, most people in my Parish and community support either Mr. McCain, Mr. Romney or Mr. Paul. While all Republican candidates are better than either Mr. Obama or Mrs. Clinton, it is truly unfortunate that most Catholics do not support Mr. Huckabee. Even a member of my family says that Mr. Huckabee is too liberal and not trust-worthy. To be sure, Mr. Huckabee is not as Conservative as I would like or as Conservative as many of my Catholic Pro- Huckabee friends would like, but on balance he is the most Conservative of the candidates available so we support him with our votes and in some case signs and money. It is particularly unfortunate that most Catholic Conservatives do not see the big picture. They see the liberal aspects of Mr. Huckabee, but seem to turn a blind eye to the liberal aspects of the other candidates. At first I was concerned about some of Mr. Huckabee’s liberal policies, but when I researched the issues, I found that while Mr. Huckabee is not 100% Conservative on many issues, he is not 100% liberal on any issue. In the meantime, none of the other candidates are perfect Conservatives and Mr. Huckabee is at least 100% Conservative on Pro-Life and Pro-Family issues. It is frustrating that many in the Conservative media focus and Mr. Huckabee’s liberals polices and overlook his Conservative policies and his Pro-Life record. I also believe that he is on balance more Catholic in his policies than any other candidate even though he is not a Catholic.
There are many reasons given by my Catholic friends as to why they will vote for a candidate other than Mr. Huckabee. They say he is anti-Catholic, anti-Morman, not electable, he is not trust worthy and he cannot win. One Catholic Republican even told me that “The Republican race is over so I will vote in the Democrat Primary where my vote can make a difference." I have never met Mr. Huckabee personally or any other candidate for that matter, but I can’t believe that so many good Catholics would support somebody who is anti-Catholic and not trustworthy. There are too many good people backing Mr. Huckabee. It puzzles me why some Catholics do not trust him. In the end I believe we should vote for any Republican in November, but on March 4th, we should vote for Mr. Huckabee. Sure, it is easy to vote for the front-runner, but I for one believe that we have a duty to vote for the best candidate in the primary.
I originally come from a country that is not quite as democratic and free as The United States. The Catholic Church is also not as influential in my homeland. As a naturalized American, I am grateful to live in a land where I am free to succeed economically, free to vote for who ever I want to in the primary and free to pass on my Catholic faith to my children. I thus take my primary vote very seriously and I will vote for Mr. Huckabee. I just pray that many other Catholics in Ohio will do the same on March 4th. There comes a time when I must set a good example to my children and vote for the best candidate whether he wins or not. That time is March 4th. If the Conservative media and Conservative Catholics knew Mr. Huckabee better, perhaps he could have won. I also believe that it is possible for Mr. Huckabee to win the general election in November. If only Americans and Catholics knew the real Mr. Huckabee.
Issues such as terrorism and immigration have divided the Catholic Church in America and perhaps these issues have distracted Catholics from realizing that Mr. Huckabee is on balance the man who can advance both our Conservative and Catholic values. We need to at least send a message and vote for him. Unfortunately, it appears that most of our Catholic countrymen don’t agree and ultimately, I believe they do not understand the real Mr. Huckabee."
I personally do not believe for 1 min that Gov Huckabee supports embryonic stem cell research because of a speaking engagement on Diabetes.Should they have looked more carefully at the sponsors of this event?Yep.Should they have realized the mixed message this would send? Definitely! Do i believe it was a serious error in lack of investigation and judgement? Yep.But that Mike would support embryonic stem cell research? I flat out HIGHLY doubt it.
Fedewa, the Huckabee spokeswoman, said that because his speeches are contracted through the speakers bureau, “he very likely would not have been aware of the sponsor but only the name of the conference.”
She said the speakers bureau that handles Huckabee’s gigs “works with its clients to make sure it’s a good fit.”
Huckabee’s paid speeches dealt with “limited, focused and nonpolitical” topics, she said.
“Gov. Huckabee has been invited by many groups to speak to them about health care reform and to give motivational speeches, among other topics,” she said. “He openly speaks to people of all views who want to hear his message.”
IF these answers are not satisfactory then i think it is perfectly legitimate to raise the questions again.
I still think Huckabee is the best choice for the Rep nomination and frankly i don't think McCain will hold up to Obama for a min.
Even the Clinton machine couldn't put a stop to him.
I've written extensively about the Obamazombies at Soda Head.
One young gal said she was voting for Obama.He's sexy she said.
God Bless,
p4p
Last edited by praying4patience, 2/22/2008, 10:53 am
Fact of the matter is with McCain: he was at one time a supporter of Roe vs. Wade and a supporter of women's rights to abortion. My mother wouldn't vote for him on those grounds then.
Okay, I think I understand to what you are referring. In 2000, McCain said that he did not support the repeal of Roe vs. Wade.
Wants Roe vs. Wade made irrelevant, but would not repeal it:
quote:
McCain said, “I’d love to see a point where Roe vs. Wade is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.” A spokesman said that McCain “has a 17-year voting record of supporting efforts to overturn Roe vs. Wade. He does that currently, and will continue to do that as president.”
Source: Ron Fournier, Associated Press Aug 24, 1999
His statement certainly appears inconsistent with his voting record. If he doesn't want a repeal of Roe v Wade why support efforts to end abortion for the past 24 years?
Last May on Meet the Press McCain attempted to explain his remark:
quote:
Concerned if women undergo illegal dangerous operations
Q: In 1999, you said, "In the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force X number of women in American to undergo illegal and dangerous operations."
A: That was in the context of conversation about having to change the culture of America as regards to this issue. I have stated time after time after time that Roe v. Wade was a bad decision, that I support the rights of the unborn.
Q: If Roe v. Wade was overturned during a McCain presidency, and individual states chose to ban abortion, would you be concerned that, as you said, X number of women in America would undergo illegal and dangerous operations?
A: No, I would hope that X women in America would bring those children into life in this world, and that I could do whatever I could to assist them. Again, that conversation from 1999, so often quoted, was in the context of my concerns about changing the culture in America to understand the importance of the rights of the unborn.
Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series May 13, 2007
I don't think his response really clarifies the matter. Since he does support abortion in cases of rape, incest, and to save the life of the mother (the same as Bush), he may have rejected an outright automatic repeal of Roe based on that. I don't know. I think he's right about context, of course, but it does appear that he has changed his mind about any detriment to women in repealing Roe. It's hard to tell exactly what he means from just a few statements.
quote:
I understand that there are a lot of people out there saying "Oh, no! He was always a supporter, go look at his record"
That's because actions speak louder than words. His record of voting prolife is consistent despite the few statements he has made about Roe v Wade. He also voted to confirm the two newest Supreme Court Justices who are are considered to be in the pro-life camp, Roberts and Alito.
quote:
Go look at some of the other links, like the one I posted.
I did. It's an Election Guide 2008 provided by the New York Times. It states that at one time, McCain supported Roe v Wade.
From your link:
quote:
John McCain
Senator from Arizona
Wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, but has been supportive in the past; supported Supreme Court decision that upheld ban on partial-birth abortions; "strict constructionist judges."
quote:
When someone has a strong, and I mean strong, personality and forceful conviction, and opinions that have run counter to my faith, unless I see remorse on this topic, and not some "let me hear more..." and then a simple flip... forget it.
From my perspective, it's not a simple flip because despite the remarks he made eight years ago concerning Roe v Wade, he has a 24 year record of voting prolife.
If he had voted pro-abortion for the past quarter century I'd have more qualms about his conversion. But he didn't. Even Nancy Keenan, President of NARAL Pro-Choice America says that McCain is not pro-choice and has a 25 year record of voting against women's freedom (abortion).
quote:
Now let me say this: I think Obama is better based on the other policies outside of abortion. That AND he hasn't been near as flip flopping as I have seen. He takes a more conservative stand on some issues than most Dems.
Like what policies? I find Obama to be the most liberal of the candidates. And I agree with P4P that he is the worst we could get. I prefer Hilary Clinton to Obama and at one time I thought she was as bad as they could get. What exactly is this change Obama is talking about? He's even in favor of letting babies born alive from botched abortions die. He voted against the confirmations of John Roberts and Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court.
quote:
If I had a voting choice between a rat and a hamster, I would vote the hamster. I can cage the hamster far easier than a rat. I can toy with it too, by placing it in a ball (congressional confining). I can teach it tricks if I really wanted to.
It's purely subjective as to which one is the rat and which one is the hamster.
quote:
But I aint voting for my cats. And I aint wasting my vote for a Democrat. And I wont vote for a flip flopping Republican.
Vote your conscience by all means. But I don't see McCain as the flip-flopper you do because I'm one of those people who think actions speak louder than words and that his record of voting against abortion for 24 years is solid.
quote:
Now if you wanna say "well you said you would vote for Obama over McCain.." go ahead. I aint voted for either one yet. And I won't now. or Ever.
I beg your pardon, but the only reason that I got the idea that you would vote for Obama over McCain in the General Election is because you said you would. You said you had no problem crossing party lines this year.
quote:
I dislike McCain with a passion. Would vote for Obama over him, and yes, I have no problem crossing a party line this year. I dislike them all.
If you aren't going to vote for either then you aren't voting for Obama over McCain. But that's not what you led me to think earlier by your own words. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant.
quote:
Does that mean that my conviction is strong for not desiring to vote for anyone who EVER supported abortion in any way?
The way I look at the situation is pragmatically, just as Father Pavone recommended. McCain was by no means my first choice and he's not 100% prolife. The fact is there is no one who can get elected who is completely prolife. I did not vote for McCain in the primary in my state. But if he secures the nomination and it looks that way, then I'll vote for him. He is the lesser evil when it comes to Catholic moral teaching. And this election it appears the best we can do is take the lesser evil. There are proportionate reasons to vote for him, despite his position on embryonic stem-cell research.
His statement certainly appears inconsistent with his voting record.
Yes actions may speak louder than words. In some cases that is great. Except when you sit in silence. In a matter of speaking, his actions are hidden under the proverbial bushel basket. His silence on speaking out the position has to make some, including me, wonder.
Does he not believe in this as an injustice? Could this speaking out have garnished him the presidency in 2000? The world may never know. He is certainly not consistent in speaking out on behalf of the unborn till this election. Why??
If the voting record were enough, no one would have to say anything.
quote:
That's because actions speak louder than words. His record of voting prolife is consistent despite the few statements he has made about Roe v Wade. He also voted to confirm the two newest Supreme Court Justices who are are considered to be in the pro-life camp, Roberts and Alito.
That's fine and dandy, except we are admonished by our own Church to go out and preach/teach the faith. If you were to extend that, then your whole being should, including your voice.
quote:
It's purely subjective as to which one is the rat and which one is the hamster.
That depends. i would have thought by now that everyone would know what I think about them.
Except when you sit in silence. In a matter of speaking, his actions are hidden under the proverbial bushel basket.
Not really. Senatorial voting records are easily accessible. How he voted can easily be determined and he has a consistent record for voting against abortion for many, many years. He also voted to confirm the two recent Supreme Court nominees who are both considered firmly in the pro-life camp. It's all easily accessible and can be found right online.
quote:
Could this speaking out have garnished him the presidency in 2000? The world may never know.
As far as the world never knowing if he lost the presidency in 2000 as a result of this alleged not speaking out, why does anyone need to know the reason? He didn't secure the nomination and Bush did. End of story as far as I'm concerned.
quote:
He is certainly not consistent in speaking out on behalf of the unborn till this election. Why??
To say he is inconsistent in speaking out for the unborn prior to this election is not accurate.
quote:
On Meet the Press, McCain said he had come to the conclusion that the exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother are legitimate exceptions to an outright ban on abortions. I don't claim to be a theologian, but I have my moral beliefs. If Roe v. Wade is overturned and abortion outlawed, McCain said he believes doctors who performed abortions would be prosecuted. But I would not prosecute a woman who obtained an abortion.
Source: Boston Globe, p. A9 Jan 31, 2000
McCain was asked whether he would reinstate the Reagan era rule that prevents international family planning clinics that receive federal funds from discussing abortion. I don't believe they should advocate abortion with my tax dollars, McCain said, adding that he opposed abortion except in cases of rape and incest. He was then asked how he would determine whether someone had in fact been raped. McCain responded, I think that I would give the benefit of the doubt to the person who alleges that.
Source: New York Times, p. A17 Jan 25, 2000
McCain said he thought Roe v. Wade should be overturned and said he would support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother's life is in danger.
Source: Boston Globe, p. A11 Jan 22, 2000
In a letter to the National Right to Life Committee, McCain detailed a long anti-abortion record, including his sponsorship of the effort to overturn President Clinton's veto of a bill banning late-term procedures called partial birth abortions. He also has opposed public financing of abortions, except in cases of rape, incest or a threat to the mother's life.
Source: Ron Fournier, Associated Press Aug 24, 1999
quote:
If the voting record were enough, no one would have to say anything.
For anyone to claim he is pro-abortion and not pro-life based on one statement he made about Roe v Wade is misleading, imo.
Is he 100% prolife? No, as I've already said a number of times. He supports embryonic stem cell research and abortion in three circumstances: rape, incest, and life of mother in danger. However, there are still proportionate reasons to vote for him in the General Election if he secures the Republican nomination. He's by far the lesser evil in a race between him and either Clinton or Obama based on who supports more intrinsic evils. I intend to vote for whoever secures the nomination because voting for any third party candidate only makes a Democratic victory more likely. I'm taking Father Pavone's advice and approaching this pragmatically. I'm going to work with what we've got even if it's far from ideal.
quote:
That's fine and dandy, except we are admonished by our own Church to go out and preach/teach the faith. If you were to extend that, then your whole being should, including your voice.
I understand your point and I even agree with it. But I disagree that he has not spoken out and has been totally silent. What is it exactly that you think he should have done? Just where is it you expect him to be speaking out? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm merely asking what platform you advocate for him. I don't preach anywhere and everywhere regarding either the faith or abortion. It's not as though he never opened his mouth on the subject. He's not shouting from the rooftops, either, but then I don't know of any politicians who are doing that. I know he's not the ideal prolife candidate, but he's the best we're going to get this election. He's against more intrinsic evils than his Democratic rivals and that's what I'm going to work with if he secures the nomination.
Re: Why did Mike Huckabee take stem-cell money? Except for one person.Mike Huckabee. Now normally i don't go out on a limb on our board for a political candidate. I do make a point of supporting those that are pro life..and i also believe we have made SOME headway since Bush was elected.I dread to think of the alternative.And now we have a somewhat simliar case.Obama and his supporters(i've run into zillions of them and have since dubbed them Obamazombies)are so liberal it makes Hillary look ultra conservative.
Obama stands for absolutely nothing and i do mean nothing.
Now after much consternation on who to vote for,who to vote..handwringing,beating head against wall and prayer i did tons of research on Gov Huckabee and i became completely dedicated to his election.It was going to be Sam Brownback but when he dropped out I was lost.
In the meantime they crowned McCain and a lot of ppl threw in the towel and figured he was as close to what we needed...the RNC got behind him.The talking heads got behind him.
So he gets crowned and everyone falls in line.EXCEPT the Huckabee supporters who were not about to be duped by this coronation.
We know what we've got in this candidate.PPL tried to paint him as this loony fanatic Christian.They failed to paint Obama(truthfully)as this fanatic socialist with no substance.His followers(and that's what they are)won't even accept legit criticism.
When one young voter told us he was sexy that was the last straw.I'm thinking to myself what ARE ppl using as criteria to vote on?
Gov Huckabee is not some messianic Christian fanatic.He's intelligent,articulate and has some moral spine.Is he perfect?I doubt it.
Are his supporters enthusiastic? You bet.
While the Dem are getting their folks out in huge numbers for these primaries-the Rep are actually barely a trickle.Unfortunately these elections do require enthusiasm on the part of voters or ppl just sit home.
It looks like some Rep are going to sit home and some are switching sides.
The Huckabee supporters are mainly evangelical-that is true but they have been given deplorable treatment by the Rep party.They party feels McCain can draw in the Independent and Mod voter and even some undecided Dems.Evidently they no longer need the evangelical base so they kind of said fooey on them.
I've looked at ALL the candidates long and hard.Huckabee is breathe of fresh air.
He at least understands all the moral implications of abortion and the other life issues.That was top of the list for me.Yes, he made an error in judgement or at least one of his staff did re that speech but overall i believe with all my heart he will do whatever is in his power for the unborn,the aged and disabled.
He's not flawless but IMHO he is the candidate that the Rep partywas hoping for and they overlooked him totally.They wanted their old crony McCain and that was as far as they got.
Everyone jumped on board and endorsed him.
I'm sticking with Huckabee.I will not have a write in vote nor would i think he'd expect this since he would just go to the Dem nominee.As Portia rightfully pointed out to me.
Huckabee in no way can be worse than McCain.
He wasn't voted a 2 term Gov and one of top 5 govenors because he was terrible.
And he will bring enthusiasm and positive campaigning into the fore.I have the feeling come the election Obama will clean McCain's clock.I'm sorry,but McCain is not the man to beat Obama.Don't underestimate Huckabee.He can't win if we don't vote for him.It's that simple.They keep saying he can't win,he can't win.Well,if ppl don't vote for him of course he can't win.But that's the point.They want us to throw in the towel and go with McCain.They're bound and determined to call the race now.It's not over.If that's true why not just give him the nod and forgoe the vote.What's the point?But it's not over.It's just as much a 2 man race on the Rep side as the Dem.I don't hear these ppl in the media calling for Hillary to drop out.Anywho,
A lady posted this over at another site and i questioned it(but she also said it could be checked out).NOTHING would suprise me these days.Here's what she wrote:
"GOP, THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL IN BOLD
I'm telling you this election has been a setup from the start.
Listen, the Dems.used reverse psychology, they got the word out early in the race that they do not want to go against McCain
the media repeated it over and over until the REP. voters believed it. GOPbigwigs also.
McCain is the very one they wanted to go against all along.
Also seen on a DEM. blog about 2wks ago where they do not want to go up against Huckabee.
After reading these blogs made me realize they where up to something.
Someone posted something similar to this yesterday, he may have read the someone as I did.
here's how it worked .
When McCain was low in the polls DEM. strategists used the media to say McCain would be the toughest for them to go against.
media played it over and over, REP. voters believed this and the McCain polls numbers shot up.
NY Times must have been in on this also, Why else would you endorse someone and then hang them as soon as they looked like a lock on
the REP. side.
Also remember McCain's campaign manager from 2000 is now on the DEM. side."
To all the GOP bigwigs, you have been played, if you do not believe me go look at those DEM. blogs, The writing is on the wall guys. They do not want to go against Mike Huckabee."
Anyway,after this election i will not endorse any candidate so openly on this board.It's about the Catholic faith.NOT endorsing candidates,but when it comes to the life issues we do need to discuss them.I will always along with the other admins support the pro life candidates...but i won't stick my neck out on the board as much as i did this time.
It's just that this election is so critical i felt i had to.
Hope younz understand.
God Bless,
p4p
Last edited by praying4patience, 2/22/2008, 10:33 pm
Not really. Senatorial voting records are easily accessible. How he voted can easily be determined and he has a consistent record for voting against abortion for many, many years. He also voted to confirm the two recent Supreme Court nominees who are both considered firmly in the pro-life camp. It's all easily accessible and can be found right online.
For those who have access to it, yes...if you know where to look. Most of all this is what the candidates or their supporters put out for everyone. So in a sense, the proverbial bushel basket.
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As far as the world never knowing if he lost the presidency in 2000 as a result of this alleged not speaking out, why does anyone need to know the reason? He didn't secure the nomination and Bush did. End of story as far as I'm concerned.
You can't cut and paste the past... You raise up the past voting record, but as to why he didn't gain the bid back then for the White House, oh well? All of the backstory is important in knowing these candidates, not just what part we deem important.
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To say he is inconsistent in speaking out for the unborn prior to this election is not accurate.
Certainly I can call this inconsistancy. He was not known to ride on this in that particular election. The silence spoke volumes as it does now with any candidate. So now he openly says he is against, or for the repeal of Roe, but advocates part of the pro choice movement?
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What is it exactly that you think he should have done? Just where is it you expect him to be speaking out? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm merely asking what platform you advocate for him. I don't preach anywhere and everywhere regarding either the faith or abortion. It's not as though he never opened his mouth on the subject. He's not shouting from the rooftops, either,
Make it a huge part of the platform for one. Put it out there with a serious venture on morality, responisibility, family values, personal respect, and the like. Heck, if everyone would we would not be up to our necks in the muck and mire right now.
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but then I don't know of any politicians who are doing that.
Re: Why did Mike Huckabee take stem-cell money? The only thing Clinton said that I liked was bringing/keeping jobs in the US as opposed to the overseas offshoring trend. I'd still be a tech, so would a lot of others and yeah sometimes *not most of the time* restarting the computer does wonders. Her wanting to make abortion backed up by law, that's stupid. A law to murder. I can't stomach being democratic anymore.
--- ...Bless my enemies, O Lord. Even I bless them and do not curse them.
Amen
