Who Belongs to the Catholic Church? Mystici Corporis Christi (Encyclical Letter of Pope Pius XII)
22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. "For in one spirit" says the Apostle, "were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free." [17] As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith.
From Lumen Gentium (Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Second Vatican Council):
14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.
They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion.
Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, seek with explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined with her. With love and solicitude Mother Church already embraces them as her own.
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who—by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion—are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body' not ‘in heart.'"321
Re: Who Belongs to the Catholic Church? The relationship of other Christians to the Church is expressed as them being in imperfect communion with the Church, or linked to the Church in many ways, or belonging to the soul of the Church.
Lumen Gentium:
quote:
15. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood.
Catechism of the Catholic Church:
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."324
Catechism of Pope St. Pius X:
Catechism of Pope Pius X
29 Q: But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
A: If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation.
Re: Who Belongs to the Catholic Church? Pasting from Andy in the other thread:
quote:
3. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church-whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church-do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)
Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.
The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.
It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
Nevertheless, our separated brethren, whether considered as individuals or as Communities and Churches, are not blessed with that unity which Jesus Christ wished to bestow on all those who through Him were born again into one body, and with Him quickened to newness of life-that unity which the Holy Scriptures and the ancient Tradition of the Church proclaim. For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation. We believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, in order to establish the one Body of Christ on earth to which all should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God. This people of God, though still in its members liable to sin, is ever growing in Christ during its pilgrimage on earth, and is guided by God's gentle wisdom, according to His hidden designs, until it shall happily arrive at the fullness of eternal glory in the heavenly Jerusalem.
DECREE ON ECUMENISM UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO, Number 3
Portia: The last sentence of the first paragraph seems to answer the question you ask in the thread header-
But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)
Onslow, I disagree with you. Yes, all who have been baptized have a right to be called Christian, and they are brothers in Christ. I agree with that. They are related to the Catholic Church in various ways, however, but they are not fully incorporated as formal members.
I think you have misunderstood Andy, but I'm sure he will clarify his position for us. If, however, he is saying that baptized Protestant Christians are full members of the Church, then he and I are not in agreement.
Catholic apologist Jimmy Akin and I are in agreement. He wrote:
quote:
LG 15 turns to non-Catholic Christians and states, "The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety [e.g., Protestants] or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter [e.g., Orthodox]."
Note that it does not say that these Christians are part of the Church, only that they are "linked" to it many ways, some of which it then goes on to name (Scripture, faith in Christ, baptism). While noting that God works among them, LG does not say that it is okay for them to remain where they are: "In all of Christ's disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and he prompts them to pursue this end." In other words, God’s grace leads them toward becoming Catholics too.
Re: Who Belongs to the Catholic Church? Just want to make sure you all know where I stand. I welcome corrections to any of what I say.
Onslow said in the other thread that our understanding of "church" (language and terminology) has a lot to do with our confusion on this. I totally agree.
For Protestants, Christ's Body is the invisible church of believers. As I understand it, if you are Christian, then you must be part of this invisible church of all believers that has no visible boundaries. This invisible church is bound together by the Spirit. I think the Church agrees with this to a point. That's what is referred to in the documents we've been looking at as the "mystical Body of Christ" and the "soul of the Church". Protestants believe in their heart of hearts that this view of the church is complete and true. They do not recognize one denomination that has the fullness of truth. You'll be judged by what's in your heart. Protestants would say that those elements of faith that denominations disagree on aren't pertinent to our salvation, so they don't affect our salvation at all.
Recognizing there is truth in the Protestant position about the invisible church, the Catholic Church also recognizes that the Protestant view is lacking. For Catholics the Body of Christ isn't just invisible. It's also visible. With different claims of what Scripture says (e.g., is the Eucharist truly the Body and Blood of Christ, or is it just a symbol?) how does a Christian know which voice speaks the Truth? That's why the Catholic Church teaches that the Church was established by Christ to be a visible means of receiving an invisible salvation. That's why the Church teaches Christ established the Church to authoritatively teach the Truth. In the documents, this is referred to as the "body of the Church" and being a "full member" of the Church. The Church still teaches that all Christians are called to be full members of the church in both realms: visible and invisible. This can be very offensive to Protestants because it contradicts their theological understanding of the complete Church of Christ and the claim made by Catholics sounds very arrogant.
However, the Catholic Church also recognizes that not everyone remains separate form the visible Church through their own fault. In other words, they aren't culpable for not being full members of the Church ("full" meaning invisible and visible). One must come to understand and believe the Catholic Church is the one true visible AND invisible Church of Christ. Otherwise, they cannot be bound by their conscience to join in full and formal communion with it. Only God truly knows their heart and whether anyone has knowingly rejected His Church. That's why the Catholic Church teaches that it's possible for God to save people even outside the visible boundaries of His Church.
That's why we see the Catholic Church teaching that Protestants are imperfectly united to the Church, that the Spirit works in their communities to sanctify them, and that they are part of the soul of the Church.
But because the one true Church is visible, that's why the Catholic Church also teaches that all Christians are called to join in full communion with her and that those who recognize the Catholic Church as the one Christ established, as the one who has the FULL truth, must join the Church in order to be saved.
So Onslow, you may be getting a discount off your tuition afterall. It's just invisible, since your part of the invisible Church. ;-)
Just want to make sure you all know where I stand. I welcome corrections to any of what I say.
Onslow said in the other thread that our understanding of "church" (language and terminology) has a lot to do with our confusion on this. I totally agree.
True. But when speaking of Catholic documents we have to use the definition as the Catholic Church defines Church. If Protestants don't understand the Catholic position or think it's the same as their own, I can understand their confusion. So first we need to explain what we mean by Church. Christ has established one Church. It has visible and invisible elements. But to be a formal member of the Church established by Christ to be the universal Sacrament of Salvation for the world, one must be fully incorporated as the Catechism explains. Pius XII also dealt with membership in the Church in Mystici Corporis Christi.
quote:
22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. "For in one spirit" says the Apostle, "were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free." [17] As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith.
Andy wrote:
quote:
For Protestants, Christ's Body is the invisible church of believers. As I understand it, if you are Christian, then you must be part of this invisible church of all believers that has no visble boundaries. This invisible church is bound together by the Spirit. I think the Church agrees with this to a point.
I have also heard the Protestant understanding of Church to be all denominations, as well as believers, as comprising the Church. Hence, in their opinion, the Catholic Church is only one denomination among thousands that constitute the Church. So by their definition, the Church also has visible and invisible elements.
quote:
That's what is referred to in the documents we've been looking at the "mystical Body of Christ" and the "soul of the Church".
Yes, they are linked to, joined in certain ways, united to the soul of the Church... But there is no official source that states anywhere, to the best of my knowledge, that they are full members of the Church, as the Church is defined in Catholic teaching.
quote:
The Church still teaches that all Christians are called to be full members of the church in both realms: visible and invisible.
Right. Christ established one Church and the fullness of truth and all the means of salvation is to be found in the Catholic Church.
quote:
This can be very offensive to Protestants because it contradicts their theological understanding of the complete Church of Christ and the claim made by Catholics sounds very arrogant.
Regrettably, they do find the Church's position offensive. The Church being called a denomination can be offensive to Catholics as well. Is there a solution to this or a way to avoid any potential inadvertent offense?
quote:
Nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false irenicism, in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers loss and its genuine and certain meaning is clouded.
From Unitatis Redintegratio
While Andy knows this, I'll state it for our nonCatholic brothers and sisters: The Church has never taught that it's perfectly acceptable to be a member of any religious denomination and that is the equivalent of being a full member of the Catholic Church. Is there any real expectation from Protestants that the Church will change a 2000 year old position because we are engaged in ecumenical dialogue? Recent reports from Cardinal Kasper indicate that Protestant leaders have asked the Church to clarify her position. Hence, the new document issued by the CDF. It was only seven years ago when Dominus Iesus was issued.
quote:
The Catholic faithful are required to profess that there is an historical continuity — rooted in the apostolic succession 53 — between the Church founded by Christ and the Catholic Church: "This is the single Church of Christ... which our Saviour, after his resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care (cf. Jn 21:17), commissioning him and the other Apostles to extend and rule her (cf. Mt 28:18ff.), erected for all ages as ‘the pillar and mainstay of the truth' (1 Tim 3:15). This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in [subsistit in] the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him". [Dominus Iesus]
What is the true goal of ecumenism from the Catholic perspective?
The Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio) reads:
quote:
This is the way that, when the obstacles to perfect ecclesiastical communion have been gradually overcome, all Christians will at last, in a common celebration of the Eucharist, be gathered into the one and only Church in that unity which Christ bestowed on His Church from the beginning.
Andy wrote:
quote:
However, the Catholic Church also recognizes that not everyone remains separate form the visble Church through their own fault. In other words, they aren't culpable for not being full members of the Church ("full" meaning invisible and visible). One must come to understand and believe the Catholic Church is the one true visible AND invisible Church of Christ. Otherwise, they cannot be bound by their conscience to join in full and formal communion with it. Only God truly knows their heart and whether anyone has knowingly rejected His Church. That's why the Catholic Church teaches that it's possible for God to save people even outside the visible boundaries of His Church.
I agree. And only God knows who these people are... people who are outside the visible confines of the Church through no fault of their own.
quote:
That's why we see the Catholic Church teaching that Protestants are imperfectly united to the Church, that the Spirit works in their communities to sanctify them, and that they are part of the soul of the Church.
I agree again. But in no way does it constitute full membership in the Church and it was my understanding that Onslow was quoting this from Unitatis Redintegratio to answer my question of "Who belongs to the Catholic Church?"
quote:
But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)
Belongs is not the same as linked to, joined with in many ways, in imperfect communion, or united to the soul of the Church. It does not constitute full membership.
quote:
So Onslow, you may be getting a discount off your tuition afterall. It's just invisible, since your part of the invisible Church. ;-)
I'm all for giving Onslow a partial reduction in his Catholic school tuition as as a fellow Christian and someone united to that element of the Church that is invisible.
Yes, they are linked to, joined in certain ways, united to the soul of the Church... But there is no official source that states anywhere, to the best of my knowledge, that they are full members of the Church, as the Church is defined in Catholic teaching.
Your whole post was an excellent clarification Portia. Thanks.
Yes, you're absolutely right and we won't find it in any official documents anywhere. If the Church did that, it would be denying it's own historic and what we understand to be, apostolic teachings, which it can't do.
I hope no one misunderstands anything I'm saying to mean "full" communion with the Church can be realized without unity and recognition of the visible Church. Invisible, partial unity is good, but it's not "full" communion, as God intended. No where is this wound felt more than than at the Eucharistic table.
My oldest daughter's here as I post and she liked the penguin so I had to add it.
Re: Who Belongs to the Catholic Church? Andy, Portia:
Good posts.
I think I understand the issue the way Andy has presented it here. And, I think he has very well presented the Protestant position. (good job!).
quote:
Portia said:
Belongs is not the same as linked to, joined with in many ways, in imperfect communion, or united to the soul of the Church. It does not constitute full membership.
The document does say ‘Members of Christ’s body’, so I am going to hang my hat on being a member. However, it seems to me entirely reasonable that you would say that even though we are members of the Catholic Church, our‘membership’ in the church in a limited or ‘defective’ and is not full. Since we don’t worship with each other (very often), practice the same sacraments, etc it wouldn’t make sense to claim that we are members in every way that self-professed Catholics are. That would be misleading to both of us.
quote:
Portia Said:
While Andy knows this, I'll state it for our nonCatholic brothers and sisters: The Church has never taught that it's perfectly acceptable to be a member of any religious denomination and that is the equivalent of being a full member of the Catholic Church.
No, I do understand that, its pretty clear from the documents. But: I don’t think that making non-Catholics members (although in some limited way) necessarily dismisses the importance of being a member. Leaving one extreme (“Protestants aren’t members of the church at all”) doesn’t mean you have to jump to the other extreme of:”all particular churches are essentially the same, it doesn’t matter what you do, whatever you feel like is beautiful man (peace sign flashed)”. We’d both agree that is a mistake too. Just because something is possible doesn't mean its preferable to God.
quote:
Portia said:
So by their definition, the Church also has visible and invisible elements.
Yes, you are right. There is a strong sense of the local congregation in the concept of Church, running alongside the mystical church (which seems to me, like Andy said, to be very much like your concept of the mystical church).
For those of you who weren’t around earlier: I don’t really intend to try and argue for a Catholic student tuition break, its just a little semi-humourous way of illustrating one of the advantages of being a member of the Catholic church. Besides, I think I already promised Andy and Portia I’d share any discount with them.....
Re: Who Belongs to the Catholic Church? After thinking about it, someone is probably thinking of saying something like:
"Jees: you've spent more time and effort proving you are a member of the Catholic Church than it would have taken if you had actually joined-up and be a full member the right way"
Thanks for the reply. It sounds like we all have the same understanding of what our respective faith traditions teach. I appreciate you and Portia hanging in there with me.
My oldest daughter's here as I post and she liked the penguin so I had to add it.
However, it seems to me entirely reasonable that you would say that even though we are members of the Catholic Church, our‘membership’ in the church in a limited or ‘defective’ and is not full. Since we don’t worship with each other (very often), practice the same sacraments, etc it wouldn’t make sense to claim that we are members in every way that self-professed Catholics are. That would be misleading to both of us.
