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Kat
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Love for all creatures, great and small-Open Again
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Vivisection is the blackest of all the black crimes that man is at present committing against God and His fair creation. It ill becomes us to invoke in our daily prayers the blessings of God, the Compassionate, if we in turn will not practice elementary compassion towards our fellow creatures."
--Mahatma Gandhi
Last edited by chit, 10/28/2003, 12:14 pm
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10/25/2003, 2:13 pm
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IrreverantAnglo
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Re: Love for all creatures, great and small
quote:
Kat wrote:
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. Vivisection is the blackest of all the black crimes that man is at present committing against God and His fair creation. It ill becomes us to invoke in our daily prayers the blessings of God, the Compassionate, if we in turn will not practice elementary compassion towards our fellow creatures."
--Mahatma Gandhi
Ghandi is an excellent example of what happens to mouthy passive-aggressives!
Actually, Ghandi bespeaks the history of the British and Western Europeon Zoo Societies. The treatment by these "humane" societies has been well documented and, thank God, legislatively revised.
The quote Kat is applicable to the far past, not the present. It may be your honset feelings, but it is analogousely ancient.
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10/25/2003, 2:44 pm
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chit
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Re: Love for all creatures, great and small
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
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IMPARTIAL, adj.
Unable to perceive any promise of personal advantage from espousing either side of a controversy or adopting either of two conflicting opinions.
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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10/25/2003, 3:48 pm
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IrreverantAnglo
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Re: Love for all creatures, great and small
quote:
chit wrote:
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Except those so sure of their way that even in the dark they walk without a lamp.
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Second star to the right...Straight on till morning.
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10/25/2003, 4:58 pm
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Phayyde
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Re: Love for all creatures, great and small
I agree vivisection (hadda look it up again! yeesh) is a serious matter. I can't argue for the companies that do this stuff. I hate 'em. I have to think about it as a scientist. And I don't even like to think about it.
But when I do, I have a great feeling of respect for the sacrifice. Because that's what it is. A blood sacrifice in exchange for information. Which is then power. Which powers our technological world. In a very literal way. And it makes me do my absolute best with the these tools. It's an honor.
Why is violence against other species wrong? We kill to eat. We kill to learn. Why would God or Nature let us eat, but prevent us from learning?
How can we continue to enjoy the fruits of technology, yet consider taking that away from our decendants? Would you kill Prometheus just to soothe your personal conscience?
Let's just remember the sacrifice and pass down the information. And the honor.
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10/25/2003, 5:07 pm
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IrreverantAnglo
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Re: Love for all creatures, great and small
quote:
Phayyde wrote:
I agree vivisection (hadda look it up again! yeesh) is a serious matter. I can't argue for the companies that do this stuff. I hate 'em. I have to think about it as a scientist. And I don't even like to think about it.
But when I do, I have a great feeling of respect for the sacrifice. Because that's what it is. A blood sacrifice in exchange for information. Which is then power. Which powers our technological world. In a very literal way. And it makes me do my absolute best with the these tools. It's an honor.
Why is violence against other species wrong? We kill to eat. We kill to learn. Why would God or Nature let us eat, but prevent us from learning?
How can we continue to enjoy the fruits of technology, yet consider taking that away from our decendants? Would you kill Prometheus just to soothe your personal conscience?
Let's just remember the sacrifice and pass down the information. And the honor.
And Chit and Kat, let me remind you that Islam when chased from Europe in the 12th and 13 th Century's, forbade its scientists and academics from pursuing new lines of thought that strayed from that of the current belief. The result is the Islamic world of today; Backwards, hungry, despotic and at peace with it's animals ( well, those they haven't long killed.) You can not escape this argument. Your logical error will always result in the destruction of academic thought and freedom. I was taught that God gave me reason and emotion to use in a proper balance. Otherwise, you get a nation of Osama Bin Ladens; A so-called "educted man" and Civil Engineer.
Last edited by IrreverantAnglo (Local user), 10/25/2003, 5:33 pm
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10/25/2003, 5:31 pm
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chit
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Re: Love for all creatures, great and small
Phayyde, all I can stay is: WHA-A-?!
And what has that to do with your heron, Lee? Or are you saying it was an Al Qued operative?
Last edited by chit, 10/25/2003, 6:48 pm
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IMPARTIAL, adj.
Unable to perceive any promise of personal advantage from espousing either side of a controversy or adopting either of two conflicting opinions.
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
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10/25/2003, 6:44 pm
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Marvin Gardens
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 Re: Love for all creatures, great and small
> > Islam and their animal care. Do you rememember the lion in the zoo in Afganastan?? As for "judging a nation by the way they treat their animals", any "pro-lifers" in the audience?? Perhaps Islam has a different perspective on that. It just seems that the "infidels" are their main gripe. I'm 'fraid I may be one. Marv
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10/25/2003, 6:52 pm
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Phayyde
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Re: Love for all creatures, great and small
Chit, I don't know what to do with "Wha-a?" 
Does my logic fail?
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10/25/2003, 7:35 pm
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IrreverantAnglo
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Re: Love for all creatures, great and small
quote:
chit wrote:
Phayyde, all I can stay is: WHA-A-?!
And what has that to do with your heron, Lee? Or are you saying it was an Al Qued operative?
Rocky: Whew! Okay, let me try again. The argument by you and Kat contains a common element of the elevation of animal dignity to that equal to human dignity. At the very same time, your disdain for human performance, worth and character places Man into a sinister category much like earlier times in religious thought,i.e., Man is Evil. Your assignment of human volitional characteristics to the crude brains of animals and the equally troublesome assignment of brute animal bloodlust to humans degrades Man and elevates animal instincts.
Both of you show a distrust of science as though science was the evil servent of the evil Mankind who uses science to spoil and foul the animal world and our globe. You see progress to date as mankinds bloodsport rather than an elevation of hope that mankind can learn enough, quickly enough to aid the entire planet. You disparage Mans motives and decry his affect on the animal (physical)world.
In short, Mankind is evil and stupid and animals are the victims of the marauder man.
So, think back on our posts for a second. I now raise my earlier statement. When Islam left Western Europe during the 12th and 13th Centuries due to cultural rivalry with Europeon royalty and religious rivalry with the growing Christian populations, it changed for the worse to this day. Islam forbade intellectual, academic, scientific and religious development along any lines of inquiry not in keeping with current Islamic thought. The middle east nations fell into their own version of the Dark Ages. One it has not yet recovered from.
The PETA movement and the other animal rights organizations contain this same anti-human, anti-science, anti-knowledge, "man is evil" mentality. I submit that before you elevate animals on a mass basis to some spiritual form equal to human dignity, that you remember that the world has a perfect example of that mentality carried to it's logical conclusion. It is called the Middle East nations.
P.S.You see inflicting short term pain on that Heron as evil and bad in keeping with your prejudices. I see it as saving his life.
Last edited by IrreverantAnglo (Local user), 10/25/2003, 7:49 pm
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10/25/2003, 7:42 pm
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