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JonnykelsoII
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Top 10 Sale
Anyone going? Seen anything thats for sale?
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8/12/2007, 16:59
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howie32
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Re: Top 10 Sale
I'll be there
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8/12/2007, 19:18
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Jeash
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Re: Top 10 Sale
I'll be there too, is there a bar in the hotel?
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8/12/2007, 19:46
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Top 10 Sale
What you think will be the tops? Anything tickle your fancy? I quite like those Whittier ones. Has any of you seen the Dundee from Linjet Eileen?
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8/12/2007, 20:21
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jed deb
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…
Thinking of going been not feeling well will have to see how I feel Friday. Several lots we are interested in will wait to sale day to finally decide which ones to go after.
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9/12/2007, 16:57
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titantom
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Re: …
carisma from lyster beauty's dam
1st choice starbuck from liberty rae
1st choice pronto from atlas' family
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9/12/2007, 17:30
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howie32
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Re: Top 10 Sale
We are only about 1 hour and 20 minutes south of the sale. Will be interesting to see how many out of state people there are.
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9/12/2007, 19:02
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Buckeye
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Top 10 Sale
I would like to go, but I cannot get away. Plus I need to make a road trip to pick up some used freestalls I purchased from down south near Kentucky.
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11/12/2007, 4:03
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Jeash
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Just got back from the sale.
What a disapointment, there was maybe five or six animals that I would have taken home.
There are a lot of overscored cows from prominent cow families in the US. I don't expect every high scored cow to be a big time show cow. However, I expect a 92 point cow to have excellent udder attachments, correct feet and legs, correct thurl placement, and decent size. There were a few excellent cows there that if they came from common pedigrees they would be 86-88 point cows. I have decided that I will no longer trust classification scores. I highly recommend that foriegn buyers visit US herds and actually look at the dams and families here before they buy embryos. You just can't trust the classification scores.
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16/12/2007, 1:06
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classcow
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Top 10 Sale
which 92 point cow were you referring to?
I saw a picture of teo 2 year olds from Country Dairy that were 83 and 85 and thought it was refreshing to see a high profile cow NOT scored VG but one AI guy said she should have been - did you see her?
WHat topped the sale? What was the average?
What were the 5 or 6that caught your eye?
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16/12/2007, 5:14
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howie32
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Re: Top 10 Sale
I think there was only one 92 point cow in the sale, the Markwell Durham. I thought there were some good buys in the sale, and others that made you scratch your head. Hard sale to figure out, but then again, who knows how many of the high dollar one's actually sold. The top was the choice from Lila Z for $75,000. They announced it was bought by Quietcove. Don't know the average, I left with about 15 or 20 still to sell.
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16/12/2007, 15:24
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Jeash
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Re: Top 10 Sale
The 92 pt. cow that I was bashing was lot 18, Markwell Durham Frill. I thought she was overscored due to her slope from hooks to pins, they had a lot of hair blowed up on her tailhead. She was also weak in the loin, narrow through the chest, and she didn't have any fore or rear rib. Her udder shouldn't have been scored excellent either, the rear udder was low, fore udder bulgy, and her udder floor was no longer level.
The high seller was the pick of lila Z for 75,000 to Quietcove. I don't know the average because I had to leave for home due to the blizzard that was bearing down on us. The top four animals that I liked were
1. Lot 52, June Dundee out of Crasdale Lyster Lottery. She brought 18,500
2. Lot 42, September Storm out of Ashlyn's Allure
3. Lot 41, Rampage out of Ashlyn.
4. Lot 4, Sept Storm out of Greenlea Rub Marlene.
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16/12/2007, 19:14
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classcow
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Re: Top 10 Sale
quote:
Jeash wrote:
The 92 pt. cow that I was bashing was lot 18, Markwell Durham Frill. I thought she was overscored due to her slope from hooks to pins, they had a lot of hair blowed up on her tailhead. She was also weak in the loin...
Too much slope AND a weak loin - that is hard to find. Must have been fugly.
Howie, did she look that bad or is Jeash overexaggerating?
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17/12/2007, 0:45
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Jeash
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Re: Top 10 Sale
I would like to know Howie's view as well, maybe I am being hard on the cow. However, it is funny that you used fugly. Thats how one of the fitters described her to me when I first got there Friday night.
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17/12/2007, 1:26
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howie32
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Re: Top 10 Sale
I liked the cow last year when I saw her. She has gotten plenty deep in the udder now. To be honest with you, at the sale I only saw her in the sale ring. I got there shortly before the sale started and didn't see her in the barn. She was 90 points before, which fit her then and was still enough. The Dundee from Canada, lot 52 was quite a calf.
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17/12/2007, 16:18
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Jeash
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Re: Top 10 Sale
What time did the sale end? It seemed like they were taking forever. I left early to get home before the snow arrived. Yeah, I really liked the Dundee. I wouldn't be surprised to see her out next fall.
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17/12/2007, 18:06
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jed deb
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Top 10 Sale
Sale got done about 4 o'clock wished we would have left early. But I like to see them all sell. Took us 11 hours to get home should have taken 7. Chicago must not have snow plows in some parts of the city. Took one home she was Lot 80.
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17/12/2007, 18:49
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Jeash
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Re: Top 10 Sale
Congrats, good heifer with a great pedigree. What are you going to breed or flush her to?
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17/12/2007, 19:11
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Skaprep
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Re: Top 10 Sale
What was lot 80?
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17/12/2007, 22:16
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classcow
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Top 10 Sale
I spoke with a friend of mine in the AI industry and he told me that the DUrham was mild compared to the overscored cows in Michigan right now that a certain classifier is making. He said it is embarrasing to the association that this guy is scoring. Apparently this classifier made an 89 2 yr old in the same herd without seeing her walk and 2 88 2 yr olds that were way overdone. He thought the udder had slipped on the aforementioned Durham from when she was 90 and she was STILL raised in score. I know when he scored my herd, I thought I had a chance at 2 new EX cows and he made 6 and neither were the two I thought deserved it. I was embarrased to show my cows to neighbors with their new scores. I think the association needs to get more than one supervisor to keeop these guys consistent.
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18/12/2007, 3:47
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Buckeye
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Re: Top 10 Sale
quote:
classcow wrote:
I spoke with a friend of mine in the AI industry and he told me that the DUrham was mild compared to the overscored cows in Michigan right now that a certain classifier is making. He said it is embarrasing to the association that this guy is scoring. Apparently this classifier made an 89 2 yr old in the same herd without seeing her walk and 2 88 2 yr olds that were way overdone. He thought the udder had slipped on the aforementioned Durham from when she was 90 and she was STILL raised in score. I know when he scored my herd, I thought I had a chance at 2 new EX cows and he made 6 and neither were the two I thought deserved it. I was embarrased to show my cows to neighbors with their new scores. I think the association needs to get more than one supervisor to keeop these guys consistent.
Totally agree, from what I see when they come here, and what others who actually buy and sell in the genetics game are saying, classification is becoming very inconsistent. You can blame a lot of it on the desire of the association to look for the more profitable cow, more reliant on longevity and moderate size (supposedly). They never came out with a good doctrine on how these animals should be scored. Some of the classifiers are eager to accept the new system, and promote the new style, while another group is still looking for the old style. Breeders get stuck in the middle.
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18/12/2007, 4:14
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classcow
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Re: Top 10 Sale
Buckeye, I know exactly what you are saying. In talking with a classifier here in the area, the head men in Brattleboro see no need in keeping consistency. They used to have conferences and also had 3 guys to ride with them and keep them consistent. Now they have only one to do that. It seems the CEO is very tight and likes to brag that he is making money. But my question is at what cost???
On a side note, I just read your tagline. I feel so sorry for those dairymen that singe hair....going home to the wife all horny, but who wants to have anything to do with a man who smells like burnt cow hair?!?!?!
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18/12/2007, 4:34
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howie32
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Re: Top 10 Sale
quote:
classcow wrote:
I spoke with a friend of mine in the AI industry and he told me that the DUrham was mild compared to the overscored cows in Michigan right now that a certain classifier is making.
Just what Michigan needs, the reputation of having overscored cows. It is amazing to me the differences in scores in cows from one herd to the next.
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18/12/2007, 5:23
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blackcow
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Re: Top 10 Sale
quote:
...the differences in scores in cows from one herd to the next.
Just a couple of thoughts... I would definitely agree with Howie's comment about the differences in scores from herd to herd. I just think that is the way it's always been and I don't really see it changing all that much... My dad had a cow awhile back, in the last year, that was went from 83 to 81 to 86... All three scores were made in different herds and the last two scores were made 6 to 8 months apart by the same classifier (who I respect a great deal)... On a slightly different tangent, I am kind of surprised by the number of 94 and 95 pt. cows that are around today... it just seems like there is a substantially larger number of animals that fall into the 94/95 pt. bucket than what did in the 80s. It would be interesting to see the distribution of 94/95 pt cows from the different time periods (70s, 80s, 90s, etc...) Anyhow,
In regards, to the durham... I was happy to hear that the cow went 92 but after reading Jeash's initial post... It kind of took the wind out of my sails because I suspected that was the cow he was talking about. I have a freelance heifer out of the durham that is due to calve any day now... Hopefully, she'll calve out with a typical Durham/Freelance udder.
Does anyone know how much the Durham sold for?
Anyhow, thanks to all for the information and insight.
---
www.fancycows.com
Buy, Sell, Trade or just talk cows... No bullsh%t allowed!
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18/12/2007, 6:07
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classcow
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Re: Top 10 Sale
Blackcow, abotu 4 years ago we hosted a barn meeting and the head of classification was here to do it and the question of committee cows was brought up. He had the number of cows per year for the last 20 years and it never deviated much and if I remember, it was abotu 75 % that passed nearly every year, again without change. I think now with the internet, we just hear abotu EVERY cow that went 95. Beofre, unless they are advertised or on the WOrld's website, we do not know about it.
Howie, the guy I talked to did not mean that Mich. had overscored cows, just this one classifier was overscoring in the good herds. Heck, EVERY state has overscored and undercored cows. The classifiers are human as much as we do not think they are!LOL I just wish there was as much consistency as there was 5 years ago.
I would love to have a Freelance out of that pedigree. I like the Freelances and that pedigree. God luck with her. Keep us updated.
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18/12/2007, 14:19
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howie32
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Re: Top 10 Sale
blackcow, I believe she sold for $12,500. Classcow, I agree, it seems that there is very little consistency. It definitely seems to have gotten worse, especially on two year olds. It seems that there could be 3 points difference in two year olds depending upon who is scoring them and what barn they are in.
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18/12/2007, 15:10
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robroy
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Re: Top 10 Sale
It seems that there could be 3 points difference in two year olds depending upon who is scoring them and what barn they are in.
It seems this is not just a USA issue going by the comments following the Weeton sale in the UK this autumn
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18/12/2007, 21:46
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JEB12
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Top 10 Sale
I have always admired and respected Henderson over the years. He can be tough, but fair. Scores the same no matter the herd or the pedigree. Wish some of the classifiers the US holstein assn. has hired in recent years would score the way he does.
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18/12/2007, 22:04
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Jeash
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Re: Top 10 Sale
Howie and Classcow, do you think that we have a chance at initiating change? I know our national director (Ron Furhman). I think that he would be willing to listen if a case was made. I've had conversations with him and he is always talking how the association is suppose to be making money for the farmers. It would seem to me that if the classification system is in disrepair that it is hurting the integrity of the purebred Holstein, which isn't helping the purebred Holstein breeder make money. Maybe if we discuss this with our directors we can get the ball rolling.
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18/12/2007, 22:10
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