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Campbeltowncowboy
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Royal Highland Show
Did anyone hear what is to happen about the breeder who was seen giving a cow a bit of shock treatment? it was all the talk around the show ring!!!
What should happen when fitters or breeders are seen or caught tampering or cheeting is it up to the show or Holstein UK ?
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22/6/2008, 9:15
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mootoyou
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Re: Royal Highland Show
They say ignorance is bliss. . . . .the shock treatment you are discussing is in fact a dairy cell, which is clinically proven and highly recommended by breeders all over the world as an aid to the dairyman, particularly for mastitis cases and swelling in the udder.
The cow you are talking about had been calved just over a week and looked in great form, the dairy cell was used to help prevent swelling and oedema from returning to the udder, which to me is perfectly understandable considering how fresh she was.
I took the liberty of quoting the dairy cell website which explains it's use:
quote:
The device is connected by clamps to the affected quarter of the udder, after subclinical mastitis is detected. The treatment time is only 8 minutes and the intensity is determined by the reaction of the cow. Treatments can be done twice a day after the cow has been milked, treatment levels are determined by the irritation level of the animal.
Blood circulation is increased in the treatment area and the mastitis infection is broken down. Oedema of the udder can also be relieved and the results have also been attained for fibrosis in the udder.
I may be wrong but if this piece of equipment is acceptable by Organic standards, then surely it's use can't be brought into disrepute as a method of cheating or tampering.
I think the reason it attracted attention, is the dairy cell is still relatively unheard of in this country, if people actually looked into it further, they would soon see that it has enormous benefits, I know of a number of people who are using it within their own herd and swear by it.
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22/6/2008, 9:59
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Big Bird
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Re: Royal Highland Show
Would that be similar to a treatment I've had on my back in the past? Connect a couple of electrodes and pass an electric current through the affected area? Also similar to a tens(?) machine used by some women to relieve labour pains.
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22/6/2008, 12:18
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Campbeltowncowboy
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Mootoyou Ignorance may be bliss; but when I was at college I was taught that if a cow had mastitis you milk it out and tube it and if its bad jag with antibiotics, not heft it with 24 hrs milk (which may cause swelling) and show it and then use some electric gadget to correct the teat placement.
I dont know about this gadget but I and many other breeders and spectators round the ring were the same, but many thought it was tampering and as the word spread more than half the onlookers left before the champion was picked!!!!!
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22/6/2008, 13:03
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mootoyou
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It wasn't used because she had mastitis, it was used because she was so fresh, and with regards to treatment of mastitis, surely if theres a cure or a preventative measure which can be used to prevent the use of antibiotics and milk being unnecessarily dumped then this alternative method should be welcomed and embraced.
Times change and new technology and inventions mean an ever changing world.
CTCB. . .The Cow you are talking about has no problem with teat placement, and the machine you are talking about doesn't have any affect on teat placement, it can't perform that much of a miracle!
Big Bird I guess it works on a similar principal, I know some Cowtalkers have invested in a dairy cell, and wouldn't be without one now.
Out of interest what won the Interbreed. . . . I thought on Friday that the Reserve in the Jerseys would quite easily have taken Grand, she has previously won the Interbreed at the Highland on 2 occasions and looked in tremendous form.
Last edited by mootoyou, 22/6/2008, 13:49
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22/6/2008, 13:43
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Campbeltowncowboy
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MTY You know as well as me none of these breeders take any risks with expensive cows so most are full of preventative penecillin from they leave home they dont take the risk of a gadget maybe working!!!!
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22/6/2008, 16:17
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mootoyou
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The gadget doesn't maybe work. . . .it does work.
And in my opinion penicillen doesn't solve the problem of swelling, oedema, which was was the issue in this case.
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22/6/2008, 17:07
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oceanbrae
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Royal Highland Show
The "Dairy Cell" is very common in show strings here in Canada. It doesn't do anything to effect a cow's conformation, it merely acts to reduce edema and seemingly counter act mastitis.
To suggest otherwise without researching the product is just giving in to "show ring jealousy." It's not cheating any more than using udder comfort would be.
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23/6/2008, 14:32
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BSJW
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Re: Royal Highland Show
i've only ever heard about the 'dairy cell', never seen it in action before, and as there are no rules or regulations regarding its use as far as holstein uk are concerned, there can't really be any complaint made. It did seem to do a good job, to heve a cow that fresh with the udder she had on friday was quite impressive. Less impressive were the attempts to fill in toplines on several of the cow's at the show, if you're going to fill up the loin or tailhead of a cow by adding extra hair, at least don't make it so bloody obvious.....
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23/6/2008, 19:36
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Dixie06
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Re: Royal Highland Show
Wow - I agree with the ignorance statement! We have a dairy cell machine...have had it for 2 years. We use it both at the farm and at the shows. It is a very valuable management tool that helps control udder edema in fresh cows and treats mastitis.
I have a HUGE problem with people that like to "ASSUME" that all fitters and show winners are guilty of cheating. Instead of Innocent until proven guilty, you are immediately guilty until proven innocent...and how often does that happen? Usually the damage is already done by a select few that for a lack of better words - run their mouths and create rumors. I realize this happens everywhere.
Also, many of the fitters that I know are great cow men...they can have a sixth sense when it comes to cattle. They know when a cow is a little 'off' by observing and most of the time they treat cows (IV, etc.) before they are actually full blown sick. Makes sense to me! Preventative Medicine! Novel Idea!!!
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23/6/2008, 21:11
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Campbeltowncowboy
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Royal Highland Show
Mootoyou If there are clinically proven trials where can I find them?
I may be wrong but if you go to the Holstein UK website go to Shows > rules 3&5 is there not a grey area here!!!
I may be blissfully ignorant but I have an intrest in the Avis cow winning having spent a lot on a Shottle calf from her family last year, but I am not affraid to air the veiws of many round the show ring .
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23/6/2008, 22:02
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ben yates3
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Royal Highland Show
I sell dairy cell and you can see just what a good piece of equipment it is email if you would like me to send you one
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23/6/2008, 22:15
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mootoyou
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Re: Royal Highland Show
Only too pleased to oblige CTCB
A very detailed field study on an infected number of cows was done by Van Tonder Boerderye in the Tsitsikamma. Some of the most important deductions from this study are:
Please click the link below and scroll down the Mastitis heading to see trial results
Trial results
With regards to the interpretation of the rules you quoted, the dairy cell does not interfere or break any of the rules, so I can not see what your problem is.
The exhibitor had no reason not to use it, as it doesn't contravene any of the rules.
These dairy cells are used all over the world, perhaps this thread has highlighted their benefits rather than the insinuation of guilt, and cheating your original post naively suggested.
Last edited by mootoyou, 23/6/2008, 22:25
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23/6/2008, 22:20
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Royal Highland Show
Sorry to hijack the convo but does the dairy cell work well for mastitis? Is it expensive?
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23/6/2008, 22:33
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ben yates3
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Royal Highland Show
They are worth every penny I have stop my repeat offender cows and lowered my cell count I bought one of the first ones in to the country and any cow that get mastitis on my farm gets it used on her I have lowered my cell count by about 80,000
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23/6/2008, 22:41
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Will Richardson
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Re: Royal Highland Show
quote:
BSJW wrote:
Less impressive were the attempts to fill in toplines on several of the cow's at the show, if you're going to fill up the loin or tailhead of a cow by adding extra hair, at least don't make it so bloody obvious.....
That definitely breaks the rules ..all hair has to be attached by its own follicle.
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24/6/2008, 9:08
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PEOVEREYE
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Royal Highland Show
If it doesnt break the rules then thats fine But i understand CTCB point to some extent it isnt jealousy or ignorance it is the huge gap between those of us who know we have decent cows the classifier says and herd competitions say it and we would love to throw a halter on our best cow when she is in form for a local show . Then at the other extreme are businessmen and breeders alike who have thrown money at cows and have to show them to the absolute extreme regularly using every trick in the book most of us for a once the year trip cant compete with that so dont bother which is why cattle entries are dropping among others. at the cheshire show last year a breeder who has now sold up had an aisle to themselves with 2 clipping crushes a bank of strip lights and more than one handler/staff per cow hardly encourages me to go when i would have to milk each end of the day and everything else .
A well respected and good friend of mine is an excellent ayrshire breeder who has judged all over he once judged a dairy interbreed and walked along the cows pulled the false tails off and pulled stuck on hair off the toplines he wasnt popular with some i can tell you
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24/6/2008, 9:24
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mootoyou
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Royal Highland Show
The HUK rules state
False hair in toplines not allowed. . . .
False tails allowed.
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24/6/2008, 9:27
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Go Red
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Royal Highland Show
What about the Interbreed Heifer Judging on Saturday?
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24/6/2008, 12:35
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BSJW
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Re: Royal Highland Show
What about it?
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24/6/2008, 12:51
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Go Red
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Royal Highland Show
Just the Ayrshire heifer winning over the Talent Kiwi?
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24/6/2008, 12:52
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BSJW
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Re: Royal Highland Show
One man's opinion, not the way I would have placed it, but not a lot you can do about that.
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24/6/2008, 12:58
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BSJW
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Re: Royal Highland Show
quote:
Campbeltowncowboy wrote:
I may be wrong but if you go to the Holstein UK website go to Shows > rules 3&5 is there not a grey area here!!!
yes, you're wrong, neither rule 3 nor 5 covers the dairy cell machine. None of the holstein uk rules do, sorry
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24/6/2008, 13:03
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Trust Me
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Re: Royal Highland Show
Hi Everyone,
First time on the website. Some very interesting opinions on a lot of subjects. Seems the RHS has really stirred things up with certain negative comments about the show from people who actually never took part.
I would say showing cows is a very skilled craft and those who do it should be embraced. These "Show Men" lets call them probably only represent one or two precent of all Pedigree Breeders, and do more for Breed promotion than any orther organisation or business. If the breeders on this forum realised this then they would have had their best animals at the show. Once at the show with their animals then they would realise that they would be doing their best to win as well.
I have seen it all and heard it all. Some breeders start out preaching ethics, however once they get into a position were success is in clear view come running for all sorts of help ethical or not. Don't forget we are all human.
So the next time CTCB wants to make any smart comments then he should start showing his own animals. Then and only then can he comment on showing.
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24/6/2008, 17:05
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superted8
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Re: Royal Highland Show
Whilst I feel this thread has highlighted the benefits of the dairy cell in both treating mastitis and reducing udder swelling, I think we as breeders have to remember that shows such as the Royal Highland are far more than a mere cow show, they present a vital PR opportunity between us the farmers and the general public - the consumer. Im not convinced having a cow wired up to a dairy cell in full view of such people is good PR
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24/6/2008, 20:32
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PEOVEREYE
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Royal Highland Show
Welcome to COWTALK TRUST ME , sure you will have worked out already that there are many varied views on here and you will hear them all . Firstly got to agree with SUPERTED hardly good PR if the public saw a cow wired up .Also i not sure that the guys showing cows are the best promoters of the breed i dont doubt thequality of the stock satisfying an animal model that is likely to win at shows but the bulk of the cows in the country are in large commercial herds that have low labour and still working with some old setups increasingly they are saying these cows will not fit in my system , they dont last they infertile etc so the truly desirable cow of our customer the commercial guy maybe isnt what you see in a show ring , it is smaller and carries condition easier . This is what i am learning talking to other farmers.
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24/6/2008, 20:47
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Campbeltowncowboy
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Royal Highland Show
Trust Me:- I dont know what part of the country your from and I know were out in the sticks here in Campbeltown but I have shown cows at many local shows both here with some success and in central Scotland and had the 6th prize Heifer at Dairy Scot 2006.
Come to Campbeltown Show 1st Aug I will have my usual 8-10 there some classes are bigger than the Highland though not the same quality.
In the seven years I have been living here we have 2 local shows, my wife and I have had 5 show champions so I think I know a little about the job but obviously still have a lot to learn from the professionals.
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24/6/2008, 22:59
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