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howie32
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
Jeff,
I am confused as to how a bull stud is supposed to be able to know that there could potentially be a problem with a bull. There has been inbreeding going on for a long time, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Damion is very inbred, I happen to really like our Damion calves. This industry would have missed out on a lot of good cows and bulls if everything was done the "right way".
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7/6/2008, 0:07
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synergy1
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
quote:
Mayjay wrote:
I just had another small think in my head, just to try to keep an argument going. I have found in my travels that the breeders who only use proven bulls, and wouldn't touch a young sire to save his life, have exremely good cows.
Thats quite an interesting sales pitch for someone who primarily sells young sires.
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7/6/2008, 0:07
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Jeash
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
The studs test for known recessives before they accept a bull. We would have a Durham son at select right now, accept he is CVM positive. You can't expect a stud to test for a recessive that the don't know exists.
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7/6/2008, 1:26
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PEOVEREYE
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FRADON REDLINER
Sorry Jeff you seem to be taking some stick on here but who is to blame if you use a young bull and his calving ease is off the scale and a real cow killer ? To me its the idea of using young bulls you pay your money take your chance and without the testing nothing would be learnt . I used Fradon Jet real fertile so there is going to be a fair few here i hope we see no problems if we do the AI firms will of learnt alot and so we will in choosing future young bulls.
PS just had 3 enormous bull calves by a shottle son white as white but imho a future cow killer annoyingly as we now record with CIS we dont get calving ease surveys , dont ask me why?
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7/6/2008, 15:33
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Smurf4
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FRADON REDLINER
This thread has gone very quiet! Can we assume that Redliner has stopped throwing deformed calves?
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19/6/2008, 11:29
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Mayjay
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
Quiet indeed, I think I know what they are talking about now. I had a Redliner calf born yesterday, a week early, I can live with that, a red calf, which was nice, but talk about a friek!! When I lifted the tail, there was a monkey!
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23/6/2008, 4:44
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triday1
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FRADON REDLINER
funny thing is, another neighbor of mine isn't laughing so much(that makes 3 deformed ones within 4 miles plus quite a few stillborns), his redliner has no bottom jaw. He called holstein usa and they said the reports on deformed redliners pour in daily, they know there is a problem but they are testing parentage and a plethora of calves but said with this many screwed up ones they don't feel there is much question left except what is it, no longer who is it. The reason it got quiet on here is what's the point of telling people about it if they don't care because the "calves are fancy" or "they are only deformed in the us" heard that one from the local taurus rep.
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23/6/2008, 14:54
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foxleigh
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FRADON REDLINER
I hope they have the decency to tell us WHAT it is and how it came about so we can avoid it in the future - too many times it gets swept under the carpet.
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23/6/2008, 20:47
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bscott
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FRADON REDLINER
Talked to holstein usa this morning. 18 confirmed blood typed redliners with deformities so far. Many more reported but not yet dna tested. So far three have been sent to the lab for carcass analysis, having trouble getting guys to save dead ones and send them in.
Mine is still alive, although she is undersized I wanted to hang onto her as if she is a breeder recips are hard to come by around here.
Also talked to a breeder yesterday who I sold a calf to, he never used redliner but bought a cow bred to him and got a calf with 4 deformed legs. He had no idea there was a problem with the bull, thought it was bad luck.
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2/7/2008, 16:56
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kmosabi
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FRADON REDLINER
That is very interesting and is by far the most detailed information we have received so far.
What I dont get is that he is a canadian bull and a quick search on holstein.ca gives 201 registered reliner calves.
NOW, I may be silly here, but I have always viewed the canadian association as being more consumer friendly and involved in these sorts of things.
Presumably, there are more daughters of him up there and he was used there earlier. If that is true, why have we not heard anything from Canada and the associaiton??
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2/7/2008, 17:02
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Mayjay
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
I think they like the weather up here better.
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3/7/2008, 15:53
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Will Richardson
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
This bull needs shooting.
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7/7/2008, 19:55
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kmosabi
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FRADON REDLINER
That seems a bit rash...I havent seen one yet that has had problems, nor have we heard from Canada...
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8/7/2008, 18:06
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Smurf4
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
quote:
kmosabi wrote:
That seems a bit rash...I havent seen one yet that has had problems, nor have we heard from Canada...
I dont think its rash at all. If the greater farming community knew about this walking disaster it would just add to the bad opinion that farmers have about holsteins. I think the breed societys need to be a little sharper and nip this promlem in the bud.
Will is right: off with his head!
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8/7/2008, 22:02
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Will Richardson
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
quote:
Buckeye wrote:
then it focused on the fact that those calves had only been born in three states.
All these abnormalities would be a typical result of having treated semen with a dose of radiation... something very dodgy has gone on somewhere along the line.
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9/7/2008, 8:14
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JTTH
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
quote:
Will Richardson wrote:
quote:
Buckeye wrote:
then it focused on the fact that those calves had only been born in three states.
All these abnormalities would be a typical result of having treated semen with a dose of radiation... something very dodgy has gone on somewhere along the line.
Radiation - exactly what I was thinking too.
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9/7/2008, 8:41
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mootoyou
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 Re: FRADON REDLINER
Will
quote:
All these abnormalities would be a typical result of having treated semen with a dose of radiation... something very dodgy has gone on somewhere along the line.
Will, Youv'e obviously seen the Incredible Hulk movie! 
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9/7/2008, 8:43
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synergy1
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
quote:
Buckeye wrote:
those calves had only been born in three states. Because we all know that Red breeders have isolated gene pools, that are not inbred in the slightest (sarcasm).
Are those the same three states that people go to the family reunion in search of love?
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9/7/2008, 23:54
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JoePa Giggalos
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Re: FRADON REDLINER
quote:
Will Richardson wrote:
quote:
Buckeye wrote:
then it focused on the fact that those calves had only been born in three states.
All these abnormalities would be a typical result of having treated semen with a dose of radiation... something very dodgy has gone on somewhere along the line.
I'm confused is there a genetic problem or a manufacturing problem?
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10/7/2008, 20:04
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PEOVEREYE
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FRADON REDLINER
We had 2 fradon jet calves both bulls and both distintively marked with white heads a bit like rotates or fatals could be and before anyyone says it they aint herefords.
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24/7/2008, 22:30
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Mary A
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FRADON REDLINER
I have had 2 Redliner calves & they have both had deformities. I talked to Judy at Holstein Canada & they have only gotten 1 reported deformity. But, Canada's problem like ours in the US is that reporting is voluntary. I would imagine that 95% of people will not report anything. I only reported my 2 cases to Holstein USA after reading about the problem in the Red Bloodlines magazine. It was only then that I realized it was a wide spread problem.
I am still convinced that the discovery of CVM in Sweden was only because there, reporting abnormalities is mandatory. Just imagine if had not been discovered back then (I think 2001) how widespread it would be now, expecially with the popularity of Durham.
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24/7/2008, 22:38
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corstar
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FRADON REDLINER
Has anyone heard anything on other bulls from this family...Jet @ ABS/St. Jacobs or Jackson @ All Red Genetics?? Is it spread across the family or just a problem with Redliner?
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28/7/2008, 3:53
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