sparkymark4
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Crossbreeding, which breed next after swedish red?
Hi, i would realy appreciate peoples opinions on this, ive been using swedish red semen on my holstien cows now for 3 years because i wanted to breed healthier cows that had better feet and that were easier to manage but still produce plenty of milk. i have the 1st batch of HxSR heifers about to calve now, again to the swedish red, but i am still unsure wich 3rd breed to use on my crosses? or whether i shud go pure swedish red?
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19/5/2009, 17:41
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JonnyLungs
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Re: Crossbreeding, which breed next after swedish red?
My first question would be:
What are you trying to accomplish?
Different people will come up with different answers and when crossbreeding, it is important to know what your goals are.
Personally, I'm using mostly Jersey on the same cross you described. But I wouldn't be at all afraid to use Brown Swiss.
Others would advocate putting Montebeliarde or Normande on them.
My preference for Jersey stems a lot from my happiness with my Holstein X Jersey crosses. I like both crosses on their own and feel they'd also do well combined. The few three-way crosses I do have are doing quite well.
As always, it is important to use the best genetics. Use the best genetics from the breeds that fit your needs.
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19/5/2009, 18:13
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sparkymark4
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…
Jersey is probably the favorite but we rear dairy bred beef calves and im concerned that side might suffer with jersey genetics.
Brown swiss appears to have plenty of milk but ive heard the calves are bad to feed.
I dont like the appearence of montebeliardes although they would make great cast cows
I do have a couple of simmentel crosses milking, and they milk very well with sound feet, but they are slow milkers and abit ruff in the bag!
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19/5/2009, 19:18
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JonnyLungs
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Re: …
quote:
sparkymark4 wrote:
Jersey is probably the favorite but we rear dairy bred beef calves and im concerned that side might suffer with jersey genetics.
Brown swiss appears to have plenty of milk but ive heard the calves are bad to feed.
I dont like the appearence of montebeliardes although they would make great cast cows
I do have a couple of simmentel crosses milking, and they milk very well with sound feet, but they are slow milkers and abit ruff in the bag!
Given what you've described above, I'd probably go with Brown Swiss. You are right about Jersey beef, although when selecting my own beef to butcher for personal use I always always go with a Jersey.
I haven't noticed any of our crossbred Brown Swiss calves to be poor at learning how to drink from a bottle. But I will say the calves are large.
If you don't like any of those breeds you could consider rotating some of the Scandinavian Red and Ayrshire breeds. You wouldn't get as much hybrid vigor and even need to be careful of inbreeding in cases of bulls being used across Scandinavia.
The upside here could be that many of these breeds have been selected to breed fertile, healthy animals for many generations.
I've not tried rotating the Scandinavian breeds, but I could see it working well in theory.
Last edited by JonnyLungs, 19/5/2009, 23:54
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19/5/2009, 23:53
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JTTH
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Re: …
Here you have the Interbull fertility index apr.09 Red Breeds.(Scandenavian base/index)
avg.(bulls born 2003 and later).
Last edited by JTTH, 20/5/2009, 7:40
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20/5/2009, 7:20
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JTTH
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Re: …
Here you have the Interbull udder health index apr.09 Red Breeds.(Scandenavian base/index)
avg.(bulls born 2003 and later).
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20/5/2009, 7:39
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igen7
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Re: Crossbreeding, which breed next after swedish red?
It is a very good question
the answer depends on your goals
We are milking crosses of several breeds
Our first 3 SRB cross Holstein have calved and have really pleased --high yielding good udders legs and feet They had been bought for ET receips and held first time We sold them at price that exceeded that of the purebred receips and new owner very happy
Les Hansen advised SRB as first cross and Montbelliard as second cross --this is one option which you could take if you want stronger cattle
the jersey would be great if you get well payed for components
if you are on a liquid milk contract then finding an outcross holstein sire or another cross of SRB (i think Orrayrd and BJurist are outcrosses) may be an option but i prefer going for 3 cross rotation
ofcourse another way to proceed would be to use your F1 females as the producers on the farm and bred them to beef sire Then you just keep producing more F1 as required from Holsteins
it is very interesting breeding times we are live in
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21/5/2009, 9:10
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Craigalea
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Crossbreeding, which breed next after swedish red?
Although we do sell SRB and Monty here i am still not sold as them being the ideal cross together. Some of the SRB cattle i see are definitely what I would call old style reds (fat teats, fat thighs, average milk) and this does not make make the best cross with the montys IMO.
If you don't mind smaller cattle and the occasional deep udder J x SRB is a good option. High test too. I have had Jersey x Angus x Holstein beef and its nice and tender too. They wont be huge, but, they are still very good quality.
What is your milk market? Solids or fluid?
Swiss calves are getting slowly easier to raise as the breed progresses (so i have been told anyway) although you will get stubborn buggers still. Starvation method always worked for me when they didn't want to feed. Maybe cruel, but there is nothing like a grumbling stomach to change their minds.
If you do not like big cattle, do not use montbeliardes. The HF x Mo crosses are big cattle. Our sire analyst went and saw the montys in France. Nice looking cows. But they compete with the Holsteins for size easily and crosses are most often taller than the original parents. I think this is contrary to what Les has said before. I wish i could get my hands on some pure Monty embryos some of those cows are fantastic. All have great feet and legs too.
I know simple is better in crossbreeding, but, if you are interested in two breeds maybe try a group of the two next crosses you are interested in.
---
A quote from the merchandise department: "Difficult takes a while, Impossible I can do right away"
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9/6/2009, 7:52
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sparkymark4
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Re: Crossbreeding, which breed next after swedish red?
We now have 5 swedish red crosses milking, all by Jurist. They are giving as much milk as our holstien heifers, they are slightly smaller with good legs and feet, which makes them suitable for our grazing system. A couple have been bad tempered when it comes to milking them but hopefuly they will soon settle down.
I have a neighbour who has imported alot of pure swedish red cattle, which he milks along side his holstiens and he likes them just as much, he says the cell counts are a lot lower with the reds. So another option is to breed the holstien out of my cows and turn them into reds, i just wonder if there is enough variation in the bulls available, obviously i would loose the hybrid vigour factor.
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18/6/2009, 18:20
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sparkymark4
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Re: Crossbreeding, which breed next after swedish red?
After much thought and reseach, we have decided to use montbelliarde semen as our 3rd cross. We ordered some semen from a bull called Urbaniste, he was the most expensive at £28 per straw, but we figure its a false economy to not use the best genetics in a crossbreeding program. I was sold on the quality of the cows in the brochure, especialy the udders. The semen is more expensive than SRB but if the resulting bull calves are more valuable then this will cancel that out.
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30/7/2009, 18:28
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JonnyLungs
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Crossbreeding, which breed next after swedish red?
Urbaniste definitely has a nice proof. Looks like he's not available to us here in the United States but I'm guessing he will be soon. I've used mostly Plumitif on my Swedish Red/Holstein crosses that I've bred to Montbeliarde.
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1/8/2009, 18:10
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