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foxleigh
Ex97
True blue dinky-di maverick
Global user
Registered: 06-2003
Location: southern,oz
Posts: 2196
Karma: 21 (+21/-0)
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Re: Previous poll results
especially when you consider that there are over 100 people registared to use this forum and we get the same dozen arguing around and around the circle.
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3/4/2004, 7:26
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FiringOnAllFour
Ex97
Cyborg
Global user
Registered: 01-2004
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1835
Karma: 41 (+41/-0)
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Re: Previous poll results
I would love to debate more than i do. It is just a question of time. Our local dairy industry is entering a time of serious pressure and as a result, I only have time to argue about things that are relevant to my business.
Bottom-line facts are what I want to talk about i.e. cows paying their way - producing kgs of milk solids efficiently, staying on their feet, udders that last as long as the feet, holding condition and getting back in calf, having mastitis resistance, fast milking, calving without assistance etc.
As for lengthy chat about deep pedigrees of bulls with a PLI of £20 or £30, or what colour they are, or how sharp and showy a cow is, or how well she parades out of her individual straw pen, or advocating fool prices for straws of very out of date bulls (and less than ordinary by today's standards)etc. - the list is endless. These things I find do not lead to progress in terms of economics or efficiency.
When I feel tempted to think in terms of beautiful, balanced cows with clean bone and dairy character, my local New Zealand friend quickly brings me back to the real world by pointing out who I am in competition with, especially in exports, and asking me to think of what my five most economic cows are, and how they classify; my head sinks - I didn't see the wood for the trees.
In a country where farm labour is fast disappearing and medicinal use will become more and more restricted, who will be there to assist the Jeds in calving, treat the high cell score daughters we knowingly bred, trim the feet of the chief mark blood?
How many cowboys and girls realise that there little or no correlation between lifespan and 'high' type merit? Daughters of some negative type bulls seem to live just as long.
And what is the correlation between type merit and milk solids production?
Should we not keep racehorses instead of the black and white equivalent? They would after all kill out much better when they leave the system prematurely.
The bottom line for my farm is milk solids production made possibly by simple, relevant, functionality.
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5/4/2004, 20:30
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foxleigh
Ex97
True blue dinky-di maverick
Global user
Registered: 06-2003
Location: southern,oz
Posts: 2196
Karma: 21 (+21/-0)
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Re: Previous poll results
which country are you from?
australia is currently also in major crisis.
and yes a lot of whats here might not be relevant but does give info on ie. what bulls to steer clear of.
components to us are first and foremost in terms of production but noone blinked an eyelid when I mentioned we had our first 5% fat milk pick up ever with a 100% purebred holstein herd. currently our quota milk is 30cents a litre but our over quota 47 cents (we supply pauls/parmalat)becauseof the high component.even in the spring we got 5 cents a litre more for our over quota milk than neighbouring suppliers who had a lot lower test. however the neighbours are chasing a 10,000l av and are happy to feed 10kg of grain a day at 27cents a kg to produce 15 cent a litre of milk.where the economies of scale come in I dont know!!!I still havnt found out how much milk is enuf milk but obviously amlkman doesnt supply the hillmar cheese co in CA(maybe they are OR?)or they wouldnt still be arguing the merits of color over type and production.
if you want to mention what you do to get components etc Id be happy to enter into discussion with you.
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6/4/2004, 0:21
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FiringOnAllFour
Ex97
Cyborg
Global user
Registered: 01-2004
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1835
Karma: 41 (+41/-0)
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Re: Previous poll results
I suspect that at least some of the 40 odd percent of those who breed for production, to achieve production, feel just a little intimidated by some who flash their extensive knowledge of North American Holstein breeding.
Colour, for example, may have an impact on a colour specialist breeder's bottom line, who markets stock with such attributes. For the rest of the world who must live on the profit of milk production, such subjects are a mere diversion.
I can also see how those supplying liquid contracts are happy to breed and feed for 'white water', and to talk about such pedigrees.
All my countrymen are paid in pence per litre, although this is really just a cover for payment on milksolids, as deductions and bonuses for quality reflect the real content of our milk. (Northern Ireland).
Northern Ireland has high quality breeding within its territory, but on the whole is not genetically advanced when compared to countries such as Holland. There is not nearly enough A.I. in general use. This region is what I consider to be semi-grazing i.e. a long winter means we can identify with high production regimes, and grazing regimes (with many farms combining the two). Over 80% of milk is exported. We are not paid well for white water. Most cows spend at least six months of the year on concrete floors and lying in cubicles.
In other words, when I find a series of bulls for my breeding program that produces daughters that stand well on concrete, produce milk containing good fat and protein levels, hold condition but have persistancy of lactation, rebreed etc. I have no longer room to consider refinements for the showring.
My Co-op sets a base of 4.00% bf and 3.18%pr. NI average is 0.2 below bf base and slightly above protein base. Both stats are falling annually, thanks mainly to American/Canadian breeding taking its toll.
Please forgive me if I find talk of the next madison queen tedious.
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6/4/2004, 11:39
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canuk
Ex97
True Scarlet
Global user
Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 1329
Karma: 23 (+24/-1)
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Re: Previous poll results
This thread is supposed to be about poll results, however FiringOnAllFour, I respect your point of view. Color as far as I know, has no bearing on production, but it does have a HUGE impact on my bottom line, and I find any relating topics interesting. If you find them uninteresting, or a mere diversion, why read them?? I like you get paid for components, and I like you, don't nessesarily care who the next Madison Queen is, in fact, I hardly follow it, I would have a hard time naming more than 3 or 4 All American, or All Canadian cows. However I do find all cow related topics interesting, be it show cows, index, crossbreeding, R&W, whatever the topic, and I think most on here feel the same. If we all had the same opinion, there would be no need to talk about it, and that you say you are intimidated by this seems a shame. If you have a question, ask it, you may get some replys you like, you may get some you don't, but if you only want one opinion, don't ask. Maybe there would be enough interest out there for a commercial cow talk only, I did hear a mention about another forum from foxleigh, can't recall the name, but she did say it heavily supported the index or (production) view, maybe you should check it out.
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6/4/2004, 14:45
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FiringOnAllFour
Ex97
Cyborg
Global user
Registered: 01-2004
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1835
Karma: 41 (+41/-0)
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Re: Previous poll results
Sorry Canuk, but where did I say that I feel intimidated? Please read that part again.
I would hardly leave myself open for this criticism if I was the shy type!
I do not wish anyone to be offended by my comments. I realise that some may find them rather inflammatory, but my purpose was to help the balance of what can be slightly lop-sided debates in favour of high type. I was suggesting reasons for the weight of the 'production' vote, thereby keeping the 'thread' in sight.
Furthermore, I think that Canadians are really nice people, and that goes for the Americans too!
PS (my secret vice is that I like a pretty cow too - but don't tell anyone!).
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6/4/2004, 15:45
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