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Campbeltowncowboy
EX90
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OUCH !!! Naughty me when I started asking questions about the Tesco contract your response to me asking about Boclair and licking A...! got this started!
James you have a chip on your shoulder your responses on many topics show that.
You missed out one of the answers to my questions WHO elected you who voted for you and when do the producers you represent get achance to question you?  
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2/4/2008, 8:57
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James Johnston
EX93
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Location: Glasgow
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Re: Tesco In or Out
No, you dident start by asking questions, you started by saying,
"Its stared already I know of one producer on the outskirts of Glasgow with great cows very good milk quality and a very tidy farm where things Are done right. If he cat get in then the standard for the rest must be very high. I still think Tesco are at it and this is about headline grabing and keeping the OFT/CC off their backs,I also think that the way that the price is heading Tesco knew that the market price would pass their 22p by the winter. As producers we have a great chance for the first time since deregulation to sort a lot of problems, although we have to work with supermarkets we dont work for them!"
There wasent one single question in that opening statment, you were being podantic(an arse) about the fact your friend(and possibly you) dident get offered a Tesco contract. Yes I accused you of arse licking, still do, and for the record Bearsden is almost 15 miles from me(in-laws live there) and Bellshill is 10+ miles the other side of me, so were do you get the "...within 15 miles of Bellshill" you mention in a later statment?
Who are you trying to kid? You are of the small minded, "That's not fair, he's getting more than me for his milk" almost Communist, "Bring back the board" same mentality as the coal miners, "Stick together and they'll never break us" tell you what, why dont you, Sandy Pirie, be our Arthur Scargill? You could do the same as him, start off with a BIG union and a small house and end up with a Big house and ........
Time will tell if the "Tesco contract" will deliver,I like many hope it dose, pesimists like you dont want it to be a sucsess, what if you were in the catchment area? Would you have the same wish to see it fail to deliver a fair price? Why do you want to "have a go" at Tesco when they are at/near the top of the price table, would your efforts not be better served trying to get your own milk buyer to at least match if not better the Tesco price if you are so sure that the market will deliver such a price???
You are a very balanced person.......you have a chip on both shoulders, your provocitive s**t stiring on many topics show that!!!
As for your accusation of, "WHO elected you who voted for you and when do the producers you represent get a chance to question you?"
Represent what exactly? The Wiseman partnership board members are elected, voted for by the producers who supply Wiseman to negotiate the price with Wiseman. I am happy to talk to anyone who has a ligitimite interest in the Tesco contract(that means they supply Tesco through a Tesco/Wiseman contract) about any involvment I may have with Tesco/Wiseman, and have done so to many. At the end of the day, what has the details of the Tesco/Wiseman or any other company you dont supply got to do with you? Other than "stiring s**t" what interest are rivel milk producer contracts to you? Yes, we are rivels in a milk production sence as long as there is enough milk being produced to keep all the procesors happy and not bidding against each other for the privelage of buying our milk.
Last edited by James Johnston, 2/4/2008, 18:05
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I dont want index, I dont want type, I want both!!!
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2/4/2008, 11:51
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PEOVEREYE
EX95
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I was out with a large potatoe growing friend he set up a group of 4 farmers that supply 10% of Walkers requiremnets they employ a negotiator when they need one the 4 farmers do a good job and show all costs to walkers begiining of this year they said "hold on aminute we need more "aked for £10 a ton got £9 through showing walkers why and by how much was needed they have already told them again next year we need more aggain they were told prove it we wil pay it . This put a differnet perspective on Tesco and he thought it would be a good thing . The obstacle is how many farmers does it take to supply 10% of Tesco milk and would these farmers work together ? i think we have the chance to. On a side note the crisp packet costs more than the potatoes in it.
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2/4/2008, 12:23
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Campbeltowncowboy
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Tesco In or Out
James I Was elected as a member of the NFUs milk committiee and am asking on behalf of 2 tesco producers on the committiee why you dont have Tesco producer meetings and get the feelings of all the Tesco/Wiseman producers about everything in there contract, what qualifications do you have to do this on there behalf,you were hand picked not voted for.
James to ask on of the Tesco/Wisemans biggest and most prominent producers on the phone Do you know who you are speaking to you are either very smart or very brave!!!
Ps the last time I looked what hair I had left was grey.  
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2/4/2008, 13:53
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James Johnston
EX93
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Location: Glasgow
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Re: Tesco In or Out
quote:
Campbeltowncowboy wrote:
James I Was elected as a member of the NFUs milk committiee and am asking on behalf of 2 tesco producers on the committiee why you dont have Tesco producer meetings and get the feelings of all the Tesco/Wiseman producers about everything in there contract,
 Are you serious? There HAVE been Tesco producer meetings, one of the men you refer to was at, at least one of them
"...what qualifications do you have to do this on there behalf,you were hand picked not voted for."
Do what on there behalf? What qualifications do you think I need? What dose it have to do with a First milk producer?
If either of the two tesco producers on the committiee want to speak to me, I'll be happy to talk to THEM, I have no intention of telling you anything to do with my buisness and cetinly not on a public forum. If your 2 friends want to tell you the details of there buisness/contract, that's their choise, but it wouldent be mine.
 Hmmm I think your at it again.....s**t stiring that is 
Last edited by James Johnston, 2/4/2008, 18:13
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I dont want index, I dont want type, I want both!!!
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2/4/2008, 15:46
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Big Bird
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Re: Tesco In or Out
quote:
Campbeltowncowboy wrote:
James I Was elected as a member of the NFUs milk committiee and am asking on behalf of 2 tesco producers on the committiee why you dont have Tesco producer meetings and get the feelings of all the Tesco/Wiseman producers about everything in there contract,
The following is from an NFU bulletin recieved today, and might indicate that Campbeltown Cowboy's views might not represent the NFU official view.
'The NFU’s Dairy Board chairman Gwyn Jones has welcomed the outcome of the most recent review of Tesco’s milk price to its dedicated suppliers, which produced an increase of 0.5ppl. He said it was a small step, but in the right direction, and added: “The relationship between the producers and Tesco is still at an early stage, but we've been encouraged by what we've seen so far, with genuine effort to forge closer relationships, create representative structures, and communicate specific requirements under the contract to producers".'
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2/4/2008, 20:07
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scoobyscotlad
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Re: Tesco In or Out
Official English NFU view or official Scottish view?
Last edited by scoobyscotlad, 2/4/2008, 20:50
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2/4/2008, 20:13
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scoobyscotlad
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Re: …
quote:
James Johnston wrote:
The whole idea of the "cost tracker" is to be able to deliver cost+ xxx profit, time will tell on that one.
So Tesco will know exactly what the milk is costing to produce through Promar.
Has the "xxx" profit been agreed?
What is an acceptable profit margin to Tesco?
If market conditions allowed/dictated a 5p(or more??) margin in the future would Tesco allow/dictate this?
Last edited by scoobyscotlad, 2/4/2008, 20:44
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2/4/2008, 20:42
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PEOVEREYE
EX95
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Tesco In or Out
Mark said it as moderator i will say it now dont get personal please it distorts an important topic characters clash all the time but it doesnt make for good public debate.
James I am guessing from your post you are a representative for wiseman tesco group round you ? i keep hearing mutterings from the wiseman tesco cheshire group they are unhappy i am in the wiseman sainsbury group not gone as far as tesco yet but we have to record give access to bcms etc and i look froward to my carbon footprint audit.
Couple of questin sthat are asked in innocence befor ei am taken out and shot .
When promar do the costings , do they figure in a labour bill purely from paid labout at the end of the month or do they figure in family labour as a true cost ? after all who are doing the farm amnagers job would have unprofitable businesses if we paid ourselves a managers salary then there is the wife a spart time sec and calf feeder father tractor driver heifer rearer , our family labour bill could be £75000.
What profit do tesco beliece we need ? which i know varies on the answer to the above .
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3/4/2008, 10:58
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FiringOnAllFour
Ex97
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Re: Tesco In or Out
Don't we need all those costs taken into account that you have mentioned, plus a return on all the capital invested in the dairy business equivalent at the very least to what it would make in the building society, lets say 5-6% interest?
Because thats precisely what we would earn if we sold up, got a job and put the money in the bank.
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3/4/2008, 12:52
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Campbeltowncowboy
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Re: Tesco In or Out
Your spot on ExpectingRain.
Why if the market is working properly should the supermarkets decide if and how much profit we are allowed to make, I wasn't a great fan of the milkboards they had many faults but in 94 the margin the supermarkets had was 1.5ppl now its between 12-16ppl WHY.
We are fragmented into many small groups which are easy to play one of against the other, there has been a strange mentality that many producers who are getting below the cost of production saying but at least I am getting more than you, we are not all rivals we are all in the same boat producing the same product.
The market for milk in the UK is 13.1 billion litres production is 12.9 billion and falling, there will be many leaving the industry this year because of the cost of production the high value of their stock and the ongoing problem of NVZs.We need to speak with one voice and all give all our milk buyers a hard time and get a FAIR PRICE for our milk.
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5/4/2008, 8:32
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foxleigh
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Re: Tesco In or Out
we also have a very similar situation here in australia.Despite current milk prices being as high as they are the gap between farmers and the consumer has never been greater.Whilest I cant comment on liquid white milk as I dont buy it despite supplying a domestic white milk processor I can say that when we got 25 - 27 cents a litre a 1kg pot of yogurt was between 1.99 and 3.00 today we get 47 and that same pot is 4.50 to nearly 6.00 depending on the sale/regular price.flavoured milk used to be around 2.00 for 500ml and is now well over 3.I seem to remeber commenting somewher on her that we paid $6 a litre for 2 icebreakers not so long ago.
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5/4/2008, 21:25
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PEOVEREYE
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Re: Tesco In or Out
I am undecided on this myself so discuss and give me your vote.
I found out some more about how Promar arrive at their cost if i understand correctly they are pitching family labour/drawings at £35,000 for million litre herd so 3.5ppl this is where i presume there is no labour costed in other costs have been tweeked up a bit from what i can make out to be more level so the profit is pitched say 3ppl above this cost of production and that is how the cost tracker price is worked out . So the 3ppl or more if you are more efficient is to pay yourself more reinvest put in ISA spare like we not seen for a while .
The other way is market tracker which as it says follows the market so we should see a bit more shortly but we could always go back to the bad old days of 14/15p although with tight supply you would doubt it .
For the next 10 years what would you choose , always 3p over the Promar cost of production , but maybe not get the real highs of a market? or market tracker which could get some real highs but could just as easy be back down at 15p in some bizarre market twist?
After some of the soul searching and sacrifices of staying farming lately the safe cost tracker i think is favoured here . Are Tesco paying 3p above cost?
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6/4/2008, 18:38
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ExpectingRain
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Tesco In or Out
Peovereye, I don't know what your annual production is, but how does the figure of £35,ooo for a million litres compare to your estimate of family labour at £75,000? After the last 10 years here I think I would follow you and opt for 3ppl above cost but that would depend on how realstic Promar's figures are and how accurately they would reflect future cost increases. Saying that, £35k aint a lot if it has to pay for future investment, existing debt, cover family labour, and reflect capital invested in business, its just a damn site better than what I am used to.
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Crosshutton Holsteins
60 Homebred cows Annual Average 9800 4.2. 3.3
1EX 32VG 16GP 10G 1F 1P
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7/4/2008, 3:55
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Big Bird
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Re: Tesco In or Out
Tesco are setting up contract rearing on farms for Aberdeen Angus beef in conjunction with Blade farming.
In order to secure supplies of AA calves, farmers on Tesco milk contracts are to be told (not asked) that they must serve a given proportion of their herds to a particular AA bull, for which they will be payed £55 per calf.
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16/4/2008, 17:53
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PEOVEREYE
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Tesco In or Out
At what cost per litre does that work out either sacrificing holstein heifers or blue calves? Wisemans including sainsbury but excluding tesco are going up i think 0.3 0.4 ish for the next 2 months . Just done 12 month budget looks different to last year even with current inputs.
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16/4/2008, 18:34
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scoobyscotlad
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Re: Tesco In or Out
Told farm services the other day if they had any guts they would put their price up above the tesco 28p to keep suppliers.Lactalis recruiting hard in the surrounding area.We have always been told this could happen,wiseman price above tesco,highly unlikely.
That would make them(tesco) think...
He thought the "liquid premium" should be restored come sept/oct.
"Disappointed" was how he described the tesco 1/2p increase.
Oh and i did ask how much of the 5p increase coming our way.
"It`ll take time to filter through but it will.." 
Last edited by scoobyscotlad, 16/4/2008, 19:54
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16/4/2008, 19:48
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PEOVEREYE
EX95
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Tesco In or Out
Not certain but think sainsbury will be ahead of tesco shortly.
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16/4/2008, 20:28
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foxleigh
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Tesco In or Out
we are contracted to receive a set price for waghu/holstein crosses.They supply the semen for $5/straw and agree to buy back calves that meet their criteria at a set price.That was fine until they had noone rearing calves from dec to march.So if I wanted the high calf price I had to rear them.(supposed to receive calf rearers price on top of 10 day old price).
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17/4/2008, 6:46
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Big Bird
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Re: Tesco In or Out
quote:
ExpectingRain wrote:
How are Tesco going to police/enforce this?
Presumably the same way they're enforcing certain other aspects of farms contracted to them. 'Do as we say or we won't buy your milk'. Which isn't any different from certain other supermarket contracts.
Last edited by Big Bird, 17/4/2008, 11:48
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17/4/2008, 11:47
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