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JonnykelsoII
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Should I flush - what to?
Considering flushing a VG-hfr. She's a Good luck x Braedale Baler Twine. Dad would be more inclined to put her in-calf and get a calf from her but if I thought I could sell some eggs or calves I might try. What should I do or what should I do her with? I have used Bolton on other fmaily members.
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26/1/2008, 1:36
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cowmilker
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
I like the sound of your heifer, so I would think lots of other people would too. I like bulls that are out of good cows like Talent, Laramie and I have been using Shoremar BKB Allegro. He is not well known but his GP% is Awesome, just watch calving ease. Affirmed would be a great choice also.
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26/1/2008, 13:12
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
Thanks cowmilker. I flushed her as a maiden and had 5 FBI eggs, also have a Jocko heifer (Maybe not the obvious choice but I liked it). Does anyone have a HUKI link for Larmaie?
What about Dolman?
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26/1/2008, 17:25
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svennis
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
quote:
JonnykelsoII wrote:
Does anyone have a HUKI link for Larmaie?
Here is the link:
http://195.153.22.85/holsteinUK/publicweb/AnimalData/data/ASAncestrydetails.asp?AnimalID=32236493
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26/1/2008, 17:39
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synergy1
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baxter- that family needs a shot of milk. Larmaie is way to shaky for udders.
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26/1/2008, 18:41
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Rags2Riches4cows
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
You were wondering about selling eggs but just beware of goodluck back on gypsy grand may affect the value due to backlash on line breeding. esspecially a family that has trouble moving off of vg-2yr, get your cow on a higher classified score and then you will have something the market would pay out for. On flushing, I think Shottle is your safe option, seen a shottle coming off a baler twine line go through a sale ring last year, very nice.
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30/1/2008, 10:37
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JTTH
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
Talked to a nearby farmer last spring. He asked me to take a look at his mating plan, made by his Dansire breeding advicer.
They used a bull with, at that time, 19,6% Stillbirths on heifers.
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30/1/2008, 10:40
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errolston
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Should I flush - what to?
Allegro scores RBV 81 on Canada's new scale for expressing functional traits. That is off the scale! 85 equates to 70% calving ease, so 81 equates to 66%, ouch!
Christ knows what his stillbirths works out at. I am with Smous on this, why would you want to use a bull like that?
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30/1/2008, 10:53
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ghz
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
Yes Allegros calving nos. are off the charts,but my guess is he will be mainly used in herds where those things are very consciously taken into account (at least I hope so)
The real " propagators" of serious CE,MCE,SSB, and DSB in the "mainstream" of Holst. breeding and comercial dairy farming have been Bulls like Mascot,Luke,BW Marshall and their multi thousands of daughs. and hundreds of sons.
Bolton and a few others will likely "propagate" the same problems but hopefully to a lesser degree,(I still think he may turn out to be a very useful bull though)
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30/1/2008, 15:16
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ghz
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
Man Smous,pretty extreme comparison you use there.I think for most of the people who would use a bull like Allegro or Bolton they look at it more as a question of "high risk - higher reward" or "the cost of doing business".
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1/2/2008, 8:40
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cowmilker
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
I have used both Bolton and Allegro and had no trouble. Bulls like Allegro don't have to be a problem, early calving ease numbers are based on people that used him as a young sire and didn't know anything about him. Allegro is now known for big calves, but now you can use him to make good show cattle that can win shows. Sorry, JonnykelsoII I didn't mean for the subject to get away from your question.
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1/2/2008, 14:32
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Will Richardson
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
Shottle should work on a goodluck .. will sort the rump out, if you need more protein would go with Baxter
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1/2/2008, 23:21
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
From memory rump was one area where they all scored quite high. Thanks for your suggestions men.
I was thinking Bolton and Bonair perhaps although I can see everyones logic for the bulls suggested.
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3/2/2008, 1:25
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JEB12
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Should I flush - what to?
Jonny, in my opinion I would only use Bolton on strong cows with wide front ends. What about Socrates on your heifer? He would add milk and mantain fat %. Good PL and low SCC. Very hot sire of sons and I would think he would be marketable for embryos and calves right now. I would think Shottle would work really well also.
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3/2/2008, 3:47
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JeffNYRC
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
quote:
Buckeye wrote:
I used him as a young sire as a cleanup bull on mature cows. He is a known cow killer, his calves are massive, and they are under extreme stress at birth, they are poor doers for the first week or so because of this. I assumed that they would be large calves, but we are talking off the scale huge. I would never ever use this bull on anything remotely valuable, and I consider every cow to be valuable. Shoremar BKB Allegro is dead because he has a horrible production proof, and Semex doesn't like to hear horror stories. Leduc is a calving ease bull compared to Allegro.
Perhaps your management up to calving needs to be tuned better. I know of a farm that hired on a buddy of mine, that has been around cattle for a long time. He calves out 2-4 a day at this farm. When he first started, he had a lot of problems with calving (cows having trouble). Well when they changed the program from feeding a lot of energy to cutting out energy a few weeks out. The calving problems were eliminated.
Back in early December I lost a real nice heifer (the cow is fine), she was 120lbs at birth, that was my own damn fault it was as big as it was (I could blame the bull too, but sometimes the blame can be your own). I didn't cut out the energy soon enough, so the calf developed further.. I have noticed when I cut out grain a few weeks out, they dont stress as much.. Also to note, the same exact sire to the aformentioned heifer, was also bred to another cow. She had a smaller calf, and her energy was limited. The resulting calf was smaller.
Sure some bulls can be cow killers, however when you have some having trouble, and others not, it might be time to look at what your feeding those animals prior to calving (critical timeframe).
Jeff
Last edited by JeffNYRC, 5/2/2008, 4:38
---
"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
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5/2/2008, 4:35
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mootoyou
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
Jeff. . .
Were you born a comedian or do you practise everyday???
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5/2/2008, 11:04
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Big Bird
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
Karma for Buckeye. That's a long way more polite than I might have been in the circumstances.
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5/2/2008, 12:38
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JEB12
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Should I flush - what to?
Jeff do you have an axe to grind against Buckeye? First you suggest that he doesn't know what his own cow will score (the Luck daughter), now you imply he can't feed his closeup cows properly.
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5/2/2008, 20:29
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JeffNYRC
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
No axe to grind, however I have seen plenty of criticism from buckeye towards me, and others. Actually I do remember asking other advice, and its usually a sarcastic response from his way. Personally, it doesn't matter what happens on here, because this is online. As I have learned through the years of being on BBS's, most stuff is usually misinterpreted, etc etc. Whatever response from Buckeye would not matter..
Honestly, I dont seek popularity online, as in the real world it is insignificant..
Now have I used Allegro? No. Did I ever say to use bulls that would cause problems? No. Did I say allegro is fine? No. I said it could be his management system, as I have heard countless times that it is important to control an animals diet up to calving, as it does effect the size of the calf. I have seen this here, both with beef and dairy. The one farm I made example of, had countless calving problems. They would have to block and tackle many of the cows, however once their diet was changed, the calving problems went away.
Now did I say to use bulls that are cow killers? Nope. That is a misinterpretation of what I said, likely due to the online nature of this conversation.
And buckeye as far as Ketosis and Listerosis, that is your misinterpretation of what was said. Listeria and Ketosis are not the same, and I never said they were.
I think your taking the whole BBS thing a little too serious, remember what happens on here is trivial..
So some advice to others. Do not read into a post, and think the way the post is set, is the same as if said face to face. Many things are interpreted the wrong way, and I knew my post would be, as it has been before.
Dont judge anyone till you know them, and if you think you know someone by simply talking on a BBS, you need to get a life..
Jeff
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"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
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5/2/2008, 23:01
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howie32
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Re: Should I flush - what to?
Love the "loosemeister" comment.
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6/2/2008, 15:28
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