JeffNYRC
EX95
Global user
Registered: 09-2005
Posts: 610
Karma: 4 (+4/-0)
|
|
|
|
Your estimate at classification
I posted as some know, a picture of a shottle in the affirmed thread. Here is the same picture again.
I applogize for image size, but I wanted to preserve quality.
Now, here is a full sister to that shottle, mind you this is not the same sister I spoke of in the holsteinworld add. What do you think this 2yr old is scored at?
image removed
If you notice, her rump appears to be very similar, the frame is a bit different, legs look similar, but the udder seems slightly deeper, with a similar attachment.
Jeff
Last edited by MarkDay, 28/7/2008, 13:30
---
"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
|
|
25/7/2008, 18:28
|
|
howie32
EX95
Global user
Registered: 05-2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 525
Karma: 12 (+12/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
Oh no, not again!!!
|
|
26/7/2008, 2:52
|
|
PEOVEREYE
EX95
Global user
Registered: 02-2005
Posts: 604
Karma: 6 (+6/-0)
|
|
|
|
…
I would echo mark and say both sit comfortably in GP second heifer looks a bit "cowy" through the front end. However it si nigh on impossible to classify anything on photo we scored last week and the classifier turns them around and around walks them up and down that is the only way to score cattle .all our heifers were GP no VG 2 year olds for first time in a long time but i more than happy with that as all the heifers are young our second calvers were nearly all VG . As you have said yourself many times you want them to devlope and get better with age .
JEFF i know you spend alot of time at big sales but do you get amongst high volume sales or large herds and see the classifications of big varied groups ? it is well worth it , makes you look at your own more critical often makes you feel happier with your own but primarily it is showing you what photoes and fancy show clipped cattle cant .
|
|
26/7/2008, 8:16
|
|
Big Bird
Cowtalk Staff
Global user
Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 2820
Karma: 33 (+33/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
Posting a picture of someone else's heifer and asking how she should score? Because you think your's should score higher? Distinct lack of class.
|
|
26/7/2008, 10:40
|
|
classcow
EX95
Global user
Registered: 07-2004
Posts: 579
Karma: 33 (+33/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
Agree with Howie - haven't we been through this already???? Jeff, You seem to really have it with this classifier (as every classifier). Are you simply looking for someone on here to tell you that, "Yes, Jeff, you got screwed and your heifer should easily be VG."??? If that happened would you feel better? Maybe someone will say it, but as I said before, I think her score fits her. I agree with others on this post that pictures are difficult to appraise, but I would range the first one in the 82-83 range. I would say the second one is 83-85. I like here rear udder better and she looks smoother in her front end (crops and chine - not as much fill in needed). THe second one does look coarse in her bone (esp. front leg) but witht he newer breakdowns, strength can help some if they are still open and adequate bone quality. I assume you are going to tell us she is 87 points (as you said in the OTHER post). If pointing out someole else's overscored 2 yr old makes you happy so be it. I would be shocked if it was the same classifier - and I would guess your classifier has respect and integrity and the onterh one might not, but now I am just speculating.
You do know that if you are so upset with a classification, you can apply for a reclass and another one comes and scores you, not - one of the supervisors or head guy I think - and they dont know the previous score. Maybe you should try that - but beware, I had a neighbor that tried it once and his potential contract cow went from 81 to 80. Yours might end up 81 or 82.
|
|
27/7/2008, 2:39
|
|
JeffNYRC
EX95
Global user
Registered: 09-2005
Posts: 610
Karma: 4 (+4/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
quote:
classcow wrote:
Agree with Howie - haven't we been through this already???? Jeff, You seem to really have it with this classifier (as every classifier). Are you simply looking for someone on here to tell you that, "Yes, Jeff, you got screwed and your heifer should easily be VG."??? If that happened would you feel better? Maybe someone will say it, but as I said before, I think her score fits her. I agree with others on this post that pictures are difficult to appraise, but I would range the first one in the 82-83 range. I would say the second one is 83-85. I like here rear udder better and she looks smoother in her front end (crops and chine - not as much fill in needed). THe second one does look coarse in her bone (esp. front leg) but witht he newer breakdowns, strength can help some if they are still open and adequate bone quality. I assume you are going to tell us she is 87 points (as you said in the OTHER post). If pointing out someole else's overscored 2 yr old makes you happy so be it. I would be shocked if it was the same classifier - and I would guess your classifier has respect and integrity and the onterh one might not, but now I am just speculating.
You do know that if you are so upset with a classification, you can apply for a reclass and another one comes and scores you, not - one of the supervisors or head guy I think - and they dont know the previous score. Maybe you should try that - but beware, I had a neighbor that tried it once and his potential contract cow went from 81 to 80. Yours might end up 81 or 82.
I think your jumping ahead too much. I am not looking for someone to say "yeah she should be VG". I have already stated that I have no problem with her present score, in fact I had a feeling that she would land in GP territory, as she had a few things that were going to hurt. One was rear udder height, the other was rump width, and the fact that she went from having a better front end as a heifer, to looking beefy. I was hopefull for VG territory, but looking back, GP isn't surprising.
As I have stated, I am curious to what others think of this full sister, that is not the same sister I spoke of before. This one is different, the other one does look like her, same udder, frame, etc. Also as far as a reclass, I already talked to a few people about it, and I decided against it. I dont need bad blood in the classifier department, by reclassing. I will rescore late October (I have others then). Do I expect her to go up? Actually, id say she would stay the same. She needs another couple calves to widen that rump out, and perhaps widen that udder more to get her up to a decent score. However by then, I will hopefully have her sold, I need to stay away from index animals, they dont fit this program (I have others that milk more consistent, as they seem to do well on pasture/baleage type diets).
Jeff
---
"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
|
|
27/7/2008, 13:05
|
|
Charryman
Ex96
Global user
Registered: 12-2004
Location: Glos. UK
Posts: 979
Karma: 11 (+11/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
quote:
JeffNYRC wrote:
I have already stated that I have no problem with her present score, in fact I had a feeling that she would land in GP territory, as she had a few things that were going to hurt. One was rear udder height, the other was rump width, and the fact that she went from having a better front end as a heifer, to looking beefy.
I'm confused Jeff, is this the same heifer that you were speaking of when you said "Shottle ended up scoring GP83 with an 82mam. Regardless of sales people, she should have scored VG85 with a VG mam"?
Perhaps this one should have been your recip? After all, if a VG is a "dud" in your herd, what else do you do with an animal that's two points short of even that?
---
Anyone wants a good Charollais ram try www.lowerye.com
|
|
27/7/2008, 17:41
|
|
howie32
EX95
Global user
Registered: 05-2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 525
Karma: 12 (+12/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
quote:
JeffNYRC wrote:
Also as far as a reclass, I already talked to a few people about it, and I decided against it. I dont need bad blood in the classifier department, by reclassing.
Jeff
I hope for your sake that none of the classifiers discover Cowtalk.
|
|
27/7/2008, 19:14
|
|
howie32
EX95
Global user
Registered: 05-2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 525
Karma: 12 (+12/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
Oh, I should have also pointed out that we recently received that catalog for the sale that this other cow is selling in. If you're not trying to point out someone else's overscored two year old, then I'd like to know what you are trying to do. I still haven't figured out how to classify a cow from a picture. I could come up with pictures of GP cows that look high VG in the picture and vise versa.
Last edited by howie32, 27/7/2008, 19:26
|
|
27/7/2008, 19:25
|
|
foxleigh
Ex97
True blue dinky-di maverick
Global user
Registered: 06-2003
Location: southern,oz
Posts: 1956
Karma: 20 (+20/-0)
|
|
|
|
Your estimate at classification
all I know is I hate these big pictures that are bigger than my screen and make reading it impossible .I also have to say that I have seen plenty of pictures of animals that either are promoting sires or selling embryos that are young cows that are classified VG and I wonder how on earth those scores were derived.From what I can see if those above animals were in my herd they'd be on about GP82..... one is too deep in the udder and lacks capacity..... side on and the other is way too mature looking
|
|
27/7/2008, 22:02
|
|
JeffNYRC
EX95
Global user
Registered: 09-2005
Posts: 610
Karma: 4 (+4/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
quote:
howie32 wrote:
Oh, I should have also pointed out that we recently received that catalog for the sale that this other cow is selling in. If you're not trying to point out someone else's overscored two year old, then I'd like to know what you are trying to do. I still haven't figured out how to classify a cow from a picture. I could come up with pictures of GP cows that look high VG in the picture and vise versa.
This is what I find amusing. I asked what people think of her full sister, never mentioned any names, just a picture by itself. If someone knows the cow, then so be it. I also never said that she is overscored. Maybe your hoping I say that, but thats your own paranoia. What I am looking for is independant eyes, and so far it has been spot on. Yeah I initially figured VG, however sometimes when you take a second look, and hear others opinions, it makes you rethink that assertion.
Also I find it amusing with the VG dud, I was talking to someone the other day that used that EXACT same term. I knew exactly what they meant, and didn't try to twist it in my head to think "VG cows are duds", which seems to be perceived that way.
So is cowtalk called cowtalk, as something clever? Or do we actually talk about cows? Because this is a thread that pertains to cows, hence "cowtalk".
Jeff
---
"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
|
|
28/7/2008, 3:29
|
|
howie32
EX95
Global user
Registered: 05-2004
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 525
Karma: 12 (+12/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
Yes, it is called cowtalk. However, posting a picture of a cow that is going to sell in the next two weeks and asking people's opinions of her and getting people to try to classify her based on a single picture is a little low. I'm sure the owners of the cow would really appreciate what you are doing.
|
|
28/7/2008, 5:48
|
|
Buckeye
Cowtalk Staff
Global user
Registered: 03-2005
Posts: 2573
Karma: 31 (+31/-0)
|
|
|
|
Your estimate at classification
Jeff this thread is a whisper away from going away. We have explained bashing cows to you before. This is a more covert attempt at it.
---
Buckeye seems like a one man wrecking crew out to rid the world of injustice. ----- Mayjay
|
|
28/7/2008, 11:48
|
|
JeffNYRC
EX95
Global user
Registered: 09-2005
Posts: 610
Karma: 4 (+4/-0)
|
|
|
|
Re: Your estimate at classification
quote:
howie32 wrote:
Yes, it is called cowtalk. However, posting a picture of a cow that is going to sell in the next two weeks and asking people's opinions of her and getting people to try to classify her based on a single picture is a little low. I'm sure the owners of the cow would really appreciate what you are doing.
Don't get your panties in a bunch. Because wasn't there a thread on here that someone posted a cow, then later the owners came in and said "We would have liked to know if her piture was going to appear on the internet?". Wasn't it one of the mods who did this? But they never caught flack? I find that puzzling.
I left the name out on this animal, never mentioned who owns it, never mentioned anything else. Never mentioned it was overscored (those are other peoples words). Never was looking for "you just want to hear blah blah". I am comparing FULL SISTERS, I am not comparing an animal that isn't related. If you guys want to perceive it that way, then so be it. But no harm done, a picture is a picture, and leaving names out leaves it neutral. If you know the cow, then good, thats your knowledge.. If the animal is selling, good for the animal. I grabbed the picture because it was of good quality. The other full sister wasn't as good of a picture.
http://com3.runboard.com/bcowtalk.f5.t12085
It was this thread.. You could perceive that thread as tearing into animal. Afterall it is posting someone else's animal. What's good enough for the goose, is good enough for the gander.
Jeff
Last edited by JeffNYRC, 28/7/2008, 13:20
---
"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
|
|
28/7/2008, 13:17
|
|
Powered by AkBBS 0.9.5b - Link to us
- Blogs
- Hall of Honour
- Chat
Click here to get your own free message board
|
You are not logged in (login)
Board's time is: 23/11/2008, 11:38
|
|
|
