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shilt79
VG89
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Flush Suggestions
I have a cow that is due quite soon to Sept. Storm, and needs to be flushed this lactation. She is not yet scored (classifier sees her on Friday), does not have a record (she's a recent acquisition), but does have a pedigree. She's an Integrity x EX95 Starbuck x VG87 Valiant x EX94 Fond Matt x EX95 Pineyhill Nobility x EX94 x VG. She needs some help in the leg (foot angle + Leg set), and would like to see a litte more fore rib, and a bit higher rear udder. I'm open to most anything, but since she has no index, I'm not concerned about trying to improve her numbers, just the aforementioned traits, along with keeping an eye on milk as well as component %'s. I've been trying to find the right bull for a while, but I am not happy with where I'm at. So, I am looking forward to hearing everyone's opinion, and finding that bull I hadn't thought of.
Here's her picture:
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12/4/2004, 4:27
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amlkman
EX95
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Location: Lubbock, Texas
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Something like Freelance, Goodluck, Spy, Extream test sound type.
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12/4/2004, 5:16
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CHARITY
EX95
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Canyon-Breeze Allen
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12/4/2004, 5:22
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triday1
EX93
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Now that's a pedigree... Having seen the old Starbuck and her being an Integrity, the legs would be a major concern of mine. One option is to breed her to the son of the original cow in the family (opal I think was her name and the bull's name was orginator or something like that)and try to intensify what you have already present, that bull sired a 95 point cow for Tom Nunes that spawned another good cow family. She pretty much has all the popular bloodlines in her now... Another interesting shot would be Hanoverhill Stardom(cult favorite), who put tremedous feet and legs on cattle, and that family generally excelled in openness and depth which he sometimes needed. Skybuck would be another choice, Encore, Starz, any one of a number of good Starbuck sons for the feet and leg issue(yes I know the Second dam is a starbuck)... Good luck with her.
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12/4/2004, 5:30
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bob hardy
VG87
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Cocherill, the Storm son from Italy.
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12/4/2004, 8:17
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canuk
Ex97
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Allen- few can match the combination of chest width, and body depth, also + 10 leg set, high components, + milk. A bull seeing some use here is Jasper, again all size & frame related traits, + components, if your like me, its hard to get around the fact his sire is Bell, but his proof indicates, he is more like Lee, worth a look. Morty -looks like type may match up, but components, are not good.
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12/4/2004, 13:07
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shilt79
VG89
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Triday you're scaring me, because Stardom is one of our top choices so far, and actually we flushed a Rudolph to him last month (implanted 8 embryos). I like Allen as well, only concern is the recips. will be heifers and we've had some huge Allen calves! Thanks for all the suggestions so far, and keep them coming.
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12/4/2004, 14:03
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IndiesViewGD
EX95
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Outside good foot and leg bull and will keep her tall and fancy.
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12/4/2004, 17:35
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IndiesViewGD
EX95
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Or Dellstar EX-97 in feet and legs and should have good udders coming from the Delia family.
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12/4/2004, 18:08
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stuart m
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Re: Flush Suggestions
I'm a fan ( but not expert!) of aAa and my analyser told me nearly every Integrity he had seen needed the numbers opposite to those of Integrity. SO you would be looking for a 642 bull or something close, as you can rarely find an exact match for aAa and sire stack etc. in my experience. Some that spring to mind are Comestar Leader624 Rudolph612 Allen654 Aeroline426.
One bull we have 2 nice fresh heifers with great rear udders from, whose no.s are something like 612 I think is Markwell Nobel.
One reason people may be happy with their s
Stardoms could be his rare aAa which is something like 615 and different to the masses of 23 bulls many of us have used.
I dare bet Select would have somethig decent to fit the bill also.
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12/4/2004, 22:50
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ToB
EX95
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Re: Flush Suggestions
quote:
She is not yet scored (classifier sees her on Friday), does not have a record (she's a recent acquisition),
Is she a 2 year old? If she is she looks awful deep in the udder and would question her feet and legs in the picture.
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12/4/2004, 23:44
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shilt79
VG89
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Re: Flush Suggestions
She's third calf, not first. And yes, I would like to see the feet and legs better too; but considering her claws were crossing they were so long, and she had ulcers in a back foot, as well as heel warts on 2 of the 4, I'm surprised they've come around as much as they have. She also had pyometria when we got her too, and was only giving 40 lbs of milk. So she's been a real project; but we have the feet finally taken care of, and reproductively she's cleaned up and bred in her third trimester. She was running in a large commercial confinement herd that wasn't trimming feet due to the tough financial times.
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13/4/2004, 1:03
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mmt95
EX95
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Re: Flush Suggestions
shilt79, In breeding Integritys we usually tried to focus on the faults the dam of the daughter might have. In this case there doesn't seem to be any faults in the dam. So didn't think much about suggesting a flush sire.
However, when Triday1 mentioned Stardom, and he was on your short list, I thought you might be interested to know that Integrity had an Excellent Stardom maternal sister, Robthom Ivory Stardom,DOM. She was VG 87 at 2y, VG 89 at 3y, Ex 90 at 4y, and Ex 90 VEVVE 2E at 7y. Her best record was 4-6 2X 365 34660 5.0 1723f 3.2 1108p. Lifetime test of 4.6f & 3.3p
She had a Jed son that wound up at International Protein Sires. His proof is on their website on their proven bull list. Go to the Holstein World site and click on Internationl Protein Sires. His name is Robthom Imperial IVORY.
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13/4/2004, 2:25
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canuk
Ex97
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Re: Flush Suggestions
If this is her piture, taken with sore feet, and coming from a poor hotel, I would love a barn full. Good luck, & hope she flushes well.
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13/4/2004, 2:44
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shilt79
VG89
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Canuk, yes that is her picture taken two weeks ago, but sore feet no more!!! She's been under our care for about 9 months now, so the feet are in decent shape (after many foot wraps, footbaths, and hoof trimmings). But I should have a before and after picture!
MMT and Triday, you now have got me convinced to use Stardom. We wanted to do her that way for ourselves, and then one time for a more modern marketable mating to a newer bull. We have over 40 units of Stardom in the tank, so we've got use him somewhere! Stardom in my mind, was one of the more under-rated bulls from Hanoverhill. The Barbs were just a fabulous family, and throwing Starbuck on top just makes it more appealing. Now I just need to find one modern bull to use........
P.S. - Thank you Marianne for the valuable information about Ivory Stardom. I have seen ads for her son, and his young daughters look very good, just waiting to see what kind of udders they hang.
Last edited by shilt79, 13/4/2004, 3:25
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13/4/2004, 3:21
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ronflatness
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Re: Flush Suggestions
I like Integrity a lot... he does many things well. However this is typical of his dtrs problems in commercial herds. Thus that's why his productive life score is lower than that of Westside AB Seaman.
Fond Matt was similar, great show cows,fine in the tie stall, not so hot in commercial barns.
There are many Dellstar dtrs. from Integrity dam's, not unusual to see them improved from Poor to VG in feet & legs.
Bulls like Integrity,whose dtrs have great beauty and dairy character, but have trouble sticking around is why the US Holstein Assoc. has dumped the Dairy Character designation and replaced it with Dairy Strength, less beauty, more durability
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13/4/2004, 11:19
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mmt95
EX95
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Comparing the proof of any bull born 41 years ago with a bull proof of today is irrelevant and ludicrous.
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13/4/2004, 17:54
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ronflatness
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Re: Flush Suggestions
 Agreed ...except for a trait like Productive Life.
All bull proofs decline over the years.This is one,where hindsight is definitely clearer.
As previously noted the very worst productive life bulls are in the -7.00 range and were bulls without production. Their dtrs. type didn't matter much,if they didn't milk.
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13/4/2004, 19:46
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ronflatness
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Regancrest Dellstar. Actually some of his very best dtrs are from Storm dams.
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13/4/2004, 21:11
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IndiesViewGD
EX95
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Ron how big are the Dellstars as a rule? Or what does he transmit stature wise?
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15/4/2004, 18:24
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ronflatness
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Re: Flush Suggestions
The linear info, for stature +1.30.
His tallest dtr. is 64 in. at the shoulder, 2nd calf. She is taller than her Asrojet, unscored dam.
Thus stature is above average.I haven't seen any that aren't tall enough to score Excellent.
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16/4/2004, 2:38
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indiesviewgw
EX91
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Re: Flush Suggestions
I think if you still wanted Storm you could still get it; otherwise if you want to go Storm use September Storm, I think he seems to sire them a lot like the old man only bigger.
Last edited by indiesviewgw, 16/4/2004, 21:43
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16/4/2004, 21:42
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Rinky Dink
VG85
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Say what?? Glad you don't classify for me!
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17/4/2004, 0:35
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IndiesViewGD
EX95
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Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Re: Flush Suggestions
quote:
AC1 wrote:
What did she score as ? cow like that in the pic would be around 82 maybe 83 points no more.
Flush her to Storm.
I couldn't disagree more. Are you looking at the same cow as the rest of us are? She is a very nice cow I would say 86-88 points, I think you need to take another look.
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17/4/2004, 2:14
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bob hardy
VG87
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Re: Flush Suggestions
I would go with top end of Indiesview, if not higher. Shilt- you will have to let us know how she scored.
Heres my suggestions and reasons.
To really lift that rear udder how about Blitz or Forbidden. These Emory sons will also put some front end strength in.
Blitz is interesting as he crosses back to Valiant and the best Integrities we have seen so far in the UK go back to Valiant bloodlines - Sara and Paradise(out of Broker)included!
Another pedigree choice would be BayBob Amateur - his greatest strengths are feet, legs and rear udders. Also he is 3 generations of Valiant from Aarons cow family but by another Valiant grandson from Integrity cow family. Just a hunch but his blood could match up well with your cow.
If all of these are too low on butterfat then maybe a Storm son would do the trick.
Best Storm son for Feet and legs we have is Cocherill- hes out of a Luke sister to Mtoto.
Last edited by bob hardy, 17/4/2004, 9:38
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17/4/2004, 9:00
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Big Bird
Cowtalk Staff
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Re: Flush Suggestions
Touch and go whether this cow would make VG in the UK today. Would depend an awful lot on locomotion which can't be judged from a picture. If she walks well legs might be GP and she would get there, if she doesn't walk well then she don't make it.
Looks from the picture as though that fore rib area could also hold her back on chest width/body.
Last edited by Big Bird, 17/4/2004, 11:32
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17/4/2004, 11:06
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shilt79
VG89
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Re: Flush Suggestions
She went EX90 today, with an EX udder. Her locomotion is great, she just has a bit of set to her leg. The classifier loved her, and made her EX her first classification ever, which says something in itself. He also mentioned that he thinks she has a point or two in her yet. So much for that GP stuff, eh?
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17/4/2004, 21:23
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