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MarkDay
Head Administrator
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3363
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Virtual sire analyst-the results!
A total of 23 people took part in the survey. The following list includes those bulls chosen by 5 or more people. The list is made up of 19 sires.
I'm sorry the data doesn't transfer very well from my spread sheet.If any one would like to see the spread sheet I can email it to them.
Name/Nominations/total sons /C'try/Dams class/UK TYPE
HARTLINE TITANIC / 15/ 154/ C/ 88/ 3.25
BRAEDALE FREELANCE / 15/ 141/ C/ 88/ 3.05
LADINO PARK TALENT/ 12/ 99/ C/ 91/ 3.6
PURSUIT SEPTEMBER STORM / 10/ 91/ C/ 85/ 3.34
STOUDER MORTY / 9/ 95/ US/ 89/ 3.45
AQUILA PATRON LUCENTE / 9/ 91/ UK/ 87/ 2.67
O-BEE MANFRED JUSTICE / 8/ 80/ US/ 92/ 0.57
CALBRETT-I H H CHAMPION / 8/ 80/ C/ ex/ 3.1
ROYLANE JORDAN / 7/ 51/ US/ 90/ 3.26
LANCELOT / 6/ 71/ DEU/ 88/ 1.53
SILKY GIBSON / 6/ 58/ C/ 87/ 3.72
VANZETTI VALENTEIN RAUL / 6/ 53/ ITA/ 89/ 1.8
SUNNYLODGE LINJET / 6/ 46/ C/ 87/ 1.57
REGANCREST ELTON DURHAM / 5/ 58/ C/ 95/ 3.27
CANYON-BREEZE ALLEN / 5/ 55/ US 93/ 2.81
SILVERPOST SINATRA / 5/ 40/ NLD 85/ 2.3
END-ROAD PVF BOLIVER/ 5/ 38/ US ?/ 1.88
TERRICK REGGIE / 5/ 35/ C/ 89/ 2.46
CARECA / 5/ 30/ NLD/ 87/ 1.81
4 nominatons
Boss Iron, LYSTER,Strunz
3 nominations
DE CROB DYNASTY,
Doolhof December,Marmax,Laudan
V Eaton,Best,Banderas,bw marshall
2 nominations
NORZ-HILL FORM WIZARD,Campogallo PG Tresor,Dundee,Sosa,Forbidden,
Comestar Outside,comestar Stormatic,TERRASON,Jocko Besne,horst Harry,RED MARKER,SKYCHIEF
A Further 51 bulls recieved one nomination each!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have had a look at my choices and I chose 8 within the "favourites".I was surprised Dynasty didn't receive more votes, I chose him for his components combined with type and an out cross pedigree. The other two I chose that failed to excite others were Strunz and Laudan.- they both have interesting sire stacks,Laudan being a Lukas son from a Raider x Blackstar dam.
I set certain type criteria based on legs and feet,udders and overall type. Boliver, Oman and Raul failed those requirements but surprisingly so did Linjet ,I was shocked at how average his UK type figures were.
to view everyone's nominations click below
http://com2.runboard.com/bcowtalk.fmainchat.t238
Last edited by MarkDay, 24/3/2004, 21:26
--- Bickleygate holsteins
"I have not failed 1000 times, I have discovered a 1000 ways that do not work"-Thomas Edison |
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4/3/2004, 19:39
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foxleigh
Ex97
True blue dinky-di maverick
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: southern,oz
Posts: 2196
Karma: 21 (+21/-0)
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
mark can we have a list/statistics on who the/how many maternal sires we got?
all those who put down 4th xcalvers plus,who are they sired by?a lot of maternal sires havnt been around that long?
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4/3/2004, 21:12
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canuk
Ex97
True Scarlet
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Registered: 11-2003
Posts: 1329
Karma: 23 (+24/-1)
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
Well done Mark- very interesting study, I feel a lot better now knowing I'm not the only one that thinks A.Is should be testing a few more sons from bulls like Gibson, and Linjet. Linjet with type of 1.57 makes no sence to me, something very, very wrong with that conversion.(not surpriseing)
8 of my 10 bulls were in the popular list, with Lyster and Stormatic being the two that missed, guessing most figure Stormatics time has gone by, and have moved on to Titanic, and September Storm. Have to toot my horn a little not sure but was I not the only Canadian in this pole?? Felt these bulls with Canadian proofs held their own to say the least.
Big Bird-I agree fully with both of your points, high and NARROW pins are getting to be a huge problem, hardly ever see a big box car rump anymore (linjets specialty)
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4/3/2004, 21:25
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broa
Cowtalk Staff
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Registered: 12-2003
Location: Martebo
Posts: 2621
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
Mark I think you deserved one of these :sa
Laudan did exite at least one other person namely yours truly.
I think there's a number of bulls chosen that already should, if they where to be used as sires of sons, have calves in the pens. Alternatively they could be the maternal sire.
My take on this objective is that you have to use the bulls that are the very best for each trait i.e the highest milk bull, highest test, best udder, best feet & legs and so on.
Unfortunately you seldom, if ever, find all of it in the same package at best some bull might combine a few of those traits.
the most important part in this strategy is how these "extreme" bulls are being used.
It is crucial that the right matings are made in order to multiply the positive genes and dilute the negative ones.
If you set a minimum standard for each trait you give up on many of your oportunities to make progress and chances are that you might only be able to maintain what you already have.
I see this as a process with several steps
where you try to salvage the positive trait from the best bull for that trait and by using him on cows that are very strong where the bull have his weak points you hopefully get a offspring that is more complete than both parents.
this usually has to be repeated for a few generations before you get a bull you like to use across the board.
I'm not talking corrective matings here,
where you use a bull like aerostar on a bow legged cow.
If legs are a weak point of the bull he should be used on a cow from a family with generations of very correct legs.
Todays show cows produce much more milk than the show cows of yesterday, I think it is because of this process.
---
"Dum spiro, spero"
Cicero
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4/3/2004, 22:32
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simon powell
EX94
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Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 477
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
quote:
broa wrote:
My take on this objective is that you have to use the bulls that are the very best for each trait i.e the highest milk bull, highest test, best udder, best feet & legs and so on.
Unfortunately you seldom, if ever, find all of it in the same package at best some bull might combine a few of those traits.
the most important part in this strategy is how these "extreme" bulls are being used.
It is crucial that the right matings are made in order to multiply the positive genes and dilute the negative ones.
Broa,
I think that you have really hit the bullseye with this statement. The required bulls need to be extreme in various positive traits, without carrying any extreme negatives.
You have summed it up perfectly!!!!!!
Well done Mark, on a really worthwhile excersise!!!!
I think that the results are a great endorsement of government by democracy.
Consider the huge differences between countries, climates and production systems of all the participants, and then note the rather balanced group of bulls we have ended up with. The majority offer production and type combined, with a sample of the two extremes included to satisfy all tastes and requirements.
BULLSTUDS BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not only have we produced a set of sires to do the business, we have managed not to alienate any part of our marketplace.
UUUURRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!
Pause for thought perhaps?
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4/3/2004, 23:59
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mmt95
EX95
Global user
Registered: 11-2003
Location: USA
Posts: 566
Karma: 12 (+12/-0)
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
I, too, kept putting this off until it was locked. Just as well I suppose. I'm too hooked on finding the breeders first who breed the top cows and their families and go from there, not from the AI cow and sire list.
Enjoyed Simon Powell's tongue-in-cheek list of sires, posted March 3. Funny thing though, we have some good cows from some of those bulls: An EX 92 Ned Boy that has an Ex daughter. An Ex Bellwood with two nice uddered daughters, an Ex Lieutenant, two Ex Mascot's. One's full sister is VG 88 EVE+E) GMD-DOM, and still in the milking herd of my daughter, at eleven years. I give the dam (R.Ivory Mark) the credit for those though.
It takes a mighty poor bull not to have a few good daughters.
Last edited by mmt95, 5/3/2004, 4:53
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5/3/2004, 4:49
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