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IndiesViewGD
EX95
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
quote:
Big Bird wrote:
Although I haven't actually seen any I thought Boss Iron was an easy bull to put on my sires list with a good combination of proof and pedigree. I would like to see classifications on Bookies family, but Boss Iron is a bull I will seriously consider using myself.
As I said before we have 5 or 6 calves they are a very uniform group. Aside from one heifer that we showed; they are short, high in the tail head, hock-in, and lack overall style. I will say this they do get better with age, but there is much room for improvement on them.
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8/3/2004, 20:57
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canuk
Ex97
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
If you look at bulls with MACE proofs, there are 11 foreign bulls that would make Canadas top 50 LPI list. 4 From ITA, 3 from NLD, 3 from DEU, 1 from GBR. Unfortunatly none will ever get to 90% rel here either. (Anyone want to guess why??) As far as Wills 3 quotes, #1 YES, #2 Do you really beleive this to be true?? and #3 give your head a shake. You can beleive what ever you want but North American genetics flow through everthing regardless of where your from. Pure Canadian genetics are very limited, as most are very intertwined with the U.S. All I can say is have tried many Jabot, Lord Lilly, Sunny Boy, Rudi, Goldie, Dominator, and others, would have been nice to get at least ONE OF THESE TO SCORE 80 points. Call it what you want but untill Europe and Canadas classification systems come closer to being in line with each other, there proofs are of little value in each others system.(PLEASE NOTE, THAT DOES NOT MEAN OUR SYSTEM IS BETTER, JUST DIFFERANT)
Do I beleive that Europe will come up with a big time history maker ABSOLUTLY. Would Sunny Boy not be considered a great, when close to 2 million doses of semen were sold? But what I breed today will not tell me that for a number of years, and I may only be milking for 10-15 years, not enough time for me to gamble any more. mmt95 has it right we can only use the hash were served, if your system works for you great, but some of these MACE proofs, going either way are insane, and of little value.
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10/3/2004, 17:30
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canuk
Ex97
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
Mr Johnston all I can think to say is DUHHH!
We all know where they came from, not sure if my translation came through for you or not, did I say anything about not being surpassable? I guess if you go far enough back you could claim all that is good for whoever you wish. What I said is basically all genetics are North American, Claiming Rudolph or Gibson as Canadian, is the same as claiming Manat, or Lucente as German or English. We are playing with the same genetics and proving them under differant systems, as well as differant classification structures. Which is why I beleive the conversion formulas either way seem obviously screwed. By the way James what bull did you come up with for your heifers, any North American choices in there???? or did you stick with something that had none???
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10/3/2004, 21:26
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MarkDay
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
quote:
IndiesViewGD wrote:
quote:
Big Bird wrote:
Although I haven't actually seen any I thought Boss Iron was an easy bull to put on my sires list with a good combination of proof and pedigree. I would like to see classifications on Bookies family, but Boss Iron is a bull I will seriously consider using myself.
As I said before we have 5 or 6 calves they are a very uniform group. Aside from one heifer that we showed; they are short, high in the tail head, hock-in, and lack overall style. I will say this they do get better with age, but there is much room for improvement on them.
We have half a dozen boss iron heifers,some of the oldest in the country and I would agree with Indie's assesment "they are short, high in the tail head, hock-in, and lack overall style" and add short of fore rib.
Last edited by MarkDay, 12/3/2004, 14:22
--- Bickleygate holsteins
"I have not failed 1000 times, I have discovered a 1000 ways that do not work"-Thomas Edison |
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12/3/2004, 14:19
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cdl
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
CORRECT JAMES
EVERYONE AGREES CAN/USA GENETICS ARE BETTER
SO WHY BUY OUT OF THE SECOND DIVISION WHEN YOU CAN BUY OUT OF THE PREMIERSHIP FOR THE SAME PRICE
ITS NOT COMPLICATED BREEDING COWS OR PLAYING FOOTBALL
BUY THE BEST ,BREED THEM BETTER
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13/3/2004, 11:16
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mmt95
EX95
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
Sometimes a good "walk on" turns out to be the best bet. A good coach or breeder has to keep his options open. It's not the school (owner) a player (bull) is from, but the type of job performance that comes through.
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13/3/2004, 14:26
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Rinky Dink
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
We know a lot about 5% of the bulls,
but not much about the other 95%, and that is where a lot of the good bulls must be. I'll trust my own observations and research ahead of proofs, but will look at them too.
Hyping the tripe is all too common in AI. If you don't believe that, just look at what was being pushed by the studs as great 8 years or so ago.
An AI sire stack is only half of the pedigree, and leaves out some of the best genetics. No wonder inbreeding has become a concern. Too many bloodlines are being lost.
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15/3/2004, 19:45
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cdl
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
NO JAMES
THEY ONLY BUY HAS BEENS (COLE YORKE)
MONEY CANT BUY SUCESS BUT MAN UTD (UHH)CHELSEA AND ARSENAL ARE THE TEAMS SPENDING THE MOST AND THEY ARE 1ST 2ND 3RD THE COW THAT WON THE ROYAL WAS 30000GNS THE HIEFER WAS 20000GNS ARE YOU GETTING THE PICTURE, MONEY IS POWER AND POWER IS FAME(A BIT OF MEATLOAF FOR YOU)
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17/3/2004, 23:20
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cdl
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
YOU HAVE GOT TO REMEMBER BREEDING A WINNER IS DOWN TO ALOT OF LUCK AND GOOD MANAGEMENT
BUYING A WINNER IS DOWN TO MONEY AND GOOD MANAGEMENT
MY THOUGHTS ARE THE MANGEMENT IS THE THING FOR ME I DONT MIND BUYING OR BREEDING BUT THE SATISFACTION IS IN LOOKING AFTER THAT COW TO MAKE HER A WINNER THATS THE BIT YOU CAN CONTROL AND MAKE A GOOD OR BAD JOB OF.
IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION BUYING IS BETTER
BECAUSE YOU ARE STILL INVOLVED AND IN CONTROL
WHEN YOU HAVE SOLD ONE AND CASHED THE MONEY THE DREAM IS OVER SOMEONE ELSE GETS THE UPS AND DOWNS ITS EASY TO SELL IT AND HAVE NO PREASURE
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18/3/2004, 22:21
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mckeague
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
cdl, i wish you hadn't quoted Meatloaf!!! (i feel all grubby and sweaty from the thought of him perspiring on the stage!!!, not pleasant)
Im not so sure its east to sell the good one in all cases. What if you are the small pedigree Holstein farmer that has always aspired to breeding the great one, then suddenly one day it happens. Joe farmer will all the cash gets to hear of her and makes you a substantial offer. You go look at her, what you have strove for all your life and this figure is bouncing around your head. THats gonna be the hardest decision you have ever had to make, now that is pressure!!!!
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Work in Dairy Research. Still involved in home farm, Inishowen Holsteins and Knock Texels!! Herd average 7, 500kg on grass based diet, av. classification running around 82 - 83 pts. Need a good Texel ram, talk to me!!!!!!!
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19/3/2004, 10:01
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mckeague
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
cdl, i wish you hadn't quoted Meatloaf!!! (i feel all grubby and sweaty from the thought of him perspiring on the stage!!!, not pleasant)
Im not so sure its east to sell the good one in all cases. What if you are the small pedigree Holstein farmer that has always aspired to breeding the great one, then suddenly one day it happens. Joe farmer with all the cash gets to hear of her and makes you a substantial offer. You go look at her, what you have strove for all your life and this figure is bouncing around your head. THats gonna be the hardest decision you have ever had to make, now that is pressure!!!!
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Work in Dairy Research. Still involved in home farm, Inishowen Holsteins and Knock Texels!! Herd average 7, 500kg on grass based diet, av. classification running around 82 - 83 pts. Need a good Texel ram, talk to me!!!!!!!
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19/3/2004, 10:03
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davyd
VG86
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
Sounds like your talking from experience?????
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19/3/2004, 16:44
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Big Bird
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
quote:
cdl wrote:
MONEY CANT BUY SUCESS BUT MAN UTD (UHH)CHELSEA AND ARSENAL ARE THE TEAMS SPENDING THE MOST AND THEY ARE 1ST 2ND 3RD
Unless you have stacks of money up front this approach is unreallistic. The majority of breeders are more in the Charlton Athletic class. You have to back your eye and judgement and purchase sensibly. If someone makes a good offer you have to sell.
To me there are three good reasons to sell if the chance comes.
1) A cow with your prefix doing well is still a good advert for your herd.
2) You can always buy another cow with some of the money.
3) That cow could die tomorrow. Bit grim but very true.
And just remember that it is easier to end up doing a Leeds than an Arsenal.
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22/3/2004, 9:40
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buckeyebreeder
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
Big Bird I totally agree. I constantly tell people that at shows. If someone offers more money than the cow is worth to you, you must sell her. Especially if it is a heifer you are talking about. I know a breeder that had an Jr All American, that I believe was also nominated All American, as a Fall Calf a few years back. They had many offers for her. Up to $15,000 US. They wanted to calve her in, not remembering that her dam was a blow bag. Like a big know it all I told them was sell her, sell her, sell her. The result: a very common bag with no crease on a huge cow, that also doesn't work that hard. They tried flushing her, no one wanted the eggs because of what she looked like. I am not saying sell one for the sake of selling, but try to keep a price in your mind that you would feel comfortable selling any cow that you show or advertise, at. Because that in essance is what you are doing at a show, you are advertising your cattle, sometimes buyers want to clip a coupon.
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Whether its type or index the bottom line is that all must milk.
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23/3/2004, 4:02
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Big Bird
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
Mark, your last post could be the closest yet to needing your own disclaimer!!!
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23/3/2004, 20:37
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foxleigh
Ex97
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
one doesnt need to sell....
know of a cow whose owners turned down Us$75,000 and she has made over 30,000 us for them in progeny sales since then .
I m not certain of wanting to be the person who sold an expensive heifer that didnt turn out, bad news travels fast!!!
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24/3/2004, 0:24
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IndiesViewGD
EX95
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
quote:
foxleigh wrote:
one doesnt need to sell....
know of a cow whose owners turned down Us$75,000 and she has made over 30,000 us for them in progeny sales since then .
I m not certain of wanting to be the person who sold an expensive heifer that didnt turn out, bad news travels fast!!!
This cow wasn't Pine-Shelter Chyenne Lee was it? I know Alberts were offered 75 grand for her and turned it down.
Last edited by IndiesViewGD, 24/3/2004, 0:50
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24/3/2004, 0:47
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mmt95
EX95
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
If you are going to sell half interest in a cow, better do it as a private treaty sale. Word soon gets around about a price, if it's publicity your after.
Why try to circumvent the rules and be looked upon as somewhat shifty?
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24/3/2004, 2:33
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foxleigh
Ex97
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Re: Virtual sire analyst-the results!
no it wasnt but I'll bet theyre doing ok merchandizing from her!
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24/3/2004, 6:56
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