buckeyebreeder
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Flush ideas
This is my first post. Great site and message board btw. I have a Lindy maternal sister to Hartline Titanic, that I am going to be flushing. She scored 81 as a three year old, and should have been 85 a few years ago, but has not seen the classifier since then. She is a strong cow with good dairy character, that could use some help in the fore udder. She is quartered and udder depth could be improved. She had posty legs as a young cow but is just right now. She is over 100,000 pounds and is eight years old, fat test could be improved. She has had 3 daughters in our herd already.
-An 81pt Rudolph who was 64 inches tall that had no body capacity and a poor knobby tailhead. Not too great in the parlor either. She had two lousy daughters one by Brock, that peaked as a two year old with 30 pounds of milk, and a very wimpy Durham.
-A fantastic Integrity that looked like she would go 87 or 88 as a two year old. She suffered a torn uterus during calving and was lost.
-A nice Cousteau bred heifer that is tall and long but is a little back in the thurls, and could use more depth of rib, particularly rear rib.
She also has a son by Charles that has sired some nice calves for a local Amishman.
I am looking for a bull that will probably keep or add dairy strength, as well as improve mammary traits. I hope to market some of the eggs or a choice. Her inbreeding coeffient is high around 8.2. Any suggestions?
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23/8/2003, 3:22
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Big Bird
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 Re: Flush ideas
First thought on reading the description of the cow and her daughters would be does this cow warrant flushing.
Second thought would be if the Integrity daughter was that good why not flush to Integrity.
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23/8/2003, 7:39
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Gerbrich
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Re: Flush ideas
I have seen a lot of good stuff from Chairman x Valiant bloodlines, so I think Integrity wouldn't be such a bad choice.
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23/8/2003, 12:48
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buckeyebreeder
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Re: Flush ideas
Perhaps my description of her is a bit rough, I am giving a non sugar coated description so to help others make a accurate description. When I judge cattle I am known as a knit picker. If we all described our cows like they actually are we would think that there are a lot of sad looking cows around. She has been housed in a free stall environment with no preferrential treatment. There is a lot to be said for her longevity, and her maturity. In describing her daughters what was said about the Rudolph was accurate. Are you going to tell me that every daughter of every cow that you breed is something special. I have seen many 79 point daughters of perenial show winners. There are lots of inferior daughters of great cows around. The great ones just make less of them.
I don't like Integrity as much as I used to as they have a proclivity to DIE. They find all reasons. Torn Uterus, Ecoli, Lightning Strike, DA's. I have never seen a bull that sorts his daughters for productive life like Integrity. If they have a reason to die they will die. They are like small children that would rather pick up a pair of scissors than their rattle.
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23/8/2003, 12:57
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Big Bird
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Re: Flush ideas
I can only comment on what you have written because I can't find your cow on either the UK or Canadian websites to check out other family members. I can find some family members but not yours.
If your cow had a VG classification the pedigree would look quite attractive but as there are not that many people around who would be excited by a cow that on paper is a GP 81 fifth calver, especially if her daughter classified G 79.
A GP 81 cow further back in the pedigree might be OK if the cows she has bred are VG or EX, showing the strengths of the family. Personally, I would say if you could get a VG or EX daughter of your cow that may be the one to flush for marketing. Flushing your cow may be a way of achieving this.
No, not every daughter of every great cow is a good one, but as you say some are more consistant than others. Also some breeders are more inclined to make sure that the poorer family members don't see the classifier by one means or another, but the truly great families breed correctly most of the time.
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23/8/2003, 15:21
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buckeyebreeder
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Re: Flush ideas
Lets just say that the classifier has seen her but she was not in condition on any day. He thought she could be made 85. Not that I strive for 85 point cows necessarily. She was viewed yesterday by our ET vet on a routine visit, yesterday. His thoughts were why haven't you flushed her already? He works with her family quite extensively. He was very impressed by her Cousteau. I don't think that I have a super cash cow here. I have that in other animals I own. I am just trying to see if I can get one in the next two generations, and she provides a good base to work with. God knows I have plenty of recips around.
In regards to her inbreeding she has way to much Arlinda Chief. Being a Lindy she has two crosses to him close up. Leadman provided another through Valiant. Mark sired the third dam and the fourth was a Bell, and the fifth was a Mars tony.
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23/8/2003, 17:54
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Big Bird
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Re: Flush ideas
If the cousteau is OK, what about Gibson? He seems to be regarded as better than his brother.
Not sure where you are in the world, but a new bull we are looking at is Bosside Roma Roman?
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23/8/2003, 18:35
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foxleigh
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Re: Flush ideas
nice to see you on here!
I like the pedigree lineup of your cow and on current us trends if she reaches over 10yo she will probably goe vg anyway just for living long enuf!So that wouldnt worry me. We often flush "different" cows that probably have no marketibility just to get more daus.
I wonder about flushing her to encore or a son of his. Can you find something with sexation close up in the pedigree?I gather durham didnt work over the mason?
Maybe a son from Oceanview mandel zandra?
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23/8/2003, 22:23
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buckeyebreeder
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Re: Flush ideas
As a rule I avoid Gibson and Leduc because of the calf size. I have found that for every normal calving I get 4 very large calves that come with a variety of complications. I don't need the headache.
I am in the USA by the way.
I like your thinking foxleigh and Durham would provide a good phenotypical mating for her but EltonXMarkXBell provides more inbreeding to her. Like I said her inbreeding coefficient is high 8.2. I probably want to go outcross. I have been thinking about Outside and he only has one cross to Arlinda Chief through Prelude. He seems to fit her type wise, and can help bring up her fat test. Any thoughts?
I have Encore semen, but am reluctant to flush to that on the first time for any cow because of his so-so flush history.
I probably want to flush to a proven bull, but I do like Zandra she is one of my favorite cows that I have ever seen. If you have seen her at a show, make a trip to Ocean View and see her in her box stall in her work clothes she looks even more impressive. I have been blessed with all bull calves out Zenith and Zorro, the calves are nice. They must be good, if they throw all bulls.
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24/8/2003, 11:56
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Gerbrich
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Re: Flush ideas
quote:
buckeyebreeder wrote:
I have been thinking about Outside and he only has one cross to Arlinda Chief through Prelude. He seems to fit her type wise, and can help bring up her fat test. Any thoughts?
Well, Outside would bring the Chairman x Valiant back in.
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24/8/2003, 13:01
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buckeyebreeder
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Re: Flush ideas
She had a very nice bull calf by Outside that is being raised by another local amishman for use on his farm. He is put together well.
I am leary of Champion on her because she needs protection in the fore udder.
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24/8/2003, 16:15
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foxleigh
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Re: Flush ideas
I would agree entirely about champion.
How about a encore son of delias, JLG has one that we are using called edlin. His calves are long and (for us)dairy.
He is considered to be the dairiest of delias encore sons.
while we have never seen Zandra in her show clothes ,in 2002 we went to oceanview specially to see her and the 2 Dun-Did cows.Since then we went and used zenith but have no calves yet and imported her juror son last month.
He is the first juror son we could find with no aerostar in the pedigee!
Why not use straight prelude?Biggest problem I have with the laurie sheik family is the lack of depth of cow family,aside from the mark anthony, the type ,in general behind her is not that crash hot.We only used 2 straws of leader for 2 flushes on "top" cow families and are thankful only got 3 heifers.The leader bull we used from ex broker has been a disappointment too
Quick thought doesnt delia have a proven prelude son in the usa?
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24/8/2003, 23:14
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buckeyebreeder
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Re: Flush ideas
Yes there is a prelude son of Dellia, I think his name is Duke. He is not that impressive of an individual to look at in person. He is/was at JLG. I have used Dundee and Dawston and liked the Dawstons more then the Dundees. I have a very nice Dawston Jr. Three that scored 86 dry. She broke down VVV+V. She had a sore foot the day the classifier was here, hence the GP feet and legs.
I have found that the Laurie Sheiks have worked well for me. They provide a logical cross on my herd that is dominated by Starbuck, Mark, Bell, and Blackstar blood.
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25/8/2003, 3:49
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foxleigh
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Re: Flush ideas
hear tell that there is an encore son of paradise at excaliber sires that combines the best of encore and integrity. We thought we might try him!
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27/8/2003, 23:04
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buckeyebreeder
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Re: Flush ideas
Working on flushing this cow again. Did her to Outside last time and got 2 #1's 1 #2 and 7 dead fertilized, and 3 unfert. 2 confirmed pregnancies from 3 implants. Any suggestions now that newer proofs have come out. I have been told that Stormatic is a good cross on her but am worried that he is to fine boned to use on her, after her Rudolph I am reluctant to use super high dairy character bulls. However her Storm brother Titanic is doing well so maybe. I am told that my cow is the spitting image of her dam except with less quality to her mammary. I talked with a sire analyst that thought that Best would work well on her. I have not used him but am curious as to what others think about him.
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8/1/2004, 18:53
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shilt79
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Re: Flush ideas
How about September Storm???? He makes fabulous udders and the Storm cross has worked well on the family once. You were talking about Stormatic, and I'd suggest not using him.......lots of breeders unhappy with them as they are very, very refined, not real big, and are not the thriftiest calves. I think Best would work ok, as Wade and Emory were both breeder satisfaction bulls although those two bulls together certainly won't add style. I've heard a few guys at Select talk about him and they are quite high on him, although I've not seen any myself.
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8/1/2004, 19:07
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buckeyebreeder
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Re: Flush ideas
I like Sept Storm but have been waiting to use more of him until I see some daughters. Has anyone else seen any daughters of this bull? I agree he seems to match up. Especially on Fat% which she is currently -.09%. I will think about that one some. Thank You shilt.
Another bull that I am using but am waiting for another proof is Exhibit. I am told that there are many daughters of Exhibit in Ohio and they are good. So we will see in February. Being an Encore son I feel he matches up well.
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8/1/2004, 19:40
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