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Bob
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: Shropshire / Welsh Border
Posts: 145
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
Lots of great points being raised. Shows definitely play an important part in promoting the breed and bringing people together. Size is an issue with commercial dairy farmers still milking in sheds made for friesians. Many show cows we know of are box stalled - not just because of special diets but also because they are too valuable to risk injury. Nothing wrong with that.
I think what really upsets the commercial and pedigree farmer alike are the goings on, in getting the cows ready and I am not talking about grooming. I am talking - the unethical things that can sometimes go on at major shows- gassing, drugging, sealing, glueing. When the commercial/pedigree farmer or member of public goes down the sheds at places like Toronto and Madison and see the goings on, just prior to the show - they are horrified. It is sometimes said that the best fitters win shows not neccessarily the best cows. These antics do not promote the breed! They also take away the credit from the genuine winners.
Madison is trying to stamp out these practises and scan cows as they come out of the ring - so hopefully things are getting a lot better.
Most of the crowd really like to see genuine people with genuine cows preferably home bred, winning shows. Crowd reaction to the judges final decision usually tells all!
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16/7/2003, 13:21
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Will Richardson
Cowtalk Staff
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: Close to a pub
Posts: 1350
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 Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
.....and the punishment for those fitters caught practising these unethical things should be a lifetime ban from the showring.The owners of the cattle should be banned from registering cattle for say 5 years.The punishment must fit the crime ... its basically outright cheating isnt it.
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16/7/2003, 17:02
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indiesviewgw
EX91
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 205
Karma: 3 (+3/-0)
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
Bob, when you say, "I am talking - the unethical things that can sometimes go on at major shows- gassing, drugging, sealing, glueing," are you reffering to the setting of teats? I have read the setting teats is no longer considered unethical because it is impossible to get the udder as full as you want it without losing some of your teat placement on most cows. All the cows that I show have their teats set, and it really doesn't bother me one bit. Also, I don't think somebody should be banned from registering cattle for five years over just a little glue here and there, but I do agree that this is an appropriate punishment for the owners of those cows caught who have had their udders messed with.
However, in my opinion the real problem regarding ethics is the over aged heifers. That whole situation is insane.
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16/7/2003, 18:19
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Will Richardson
Cowtalk Staff
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: Close to a pub
Posts: 1350
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
Sounds like you are suggesting that some of these heifers are actually 6 months older than they are claimed to be.Have these animals also had their pedigrees ''fixed'' so to speak so that they appear to be from well known sires and dams and can command alot of money if they win their classes.I did hear rumours of some sort of pedigree fixing going on about 6 or 7 years ago and I believe there was a court case over it .. never found out what happened tho'.
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16/7/2003, 18:35
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indiesviewgw
EX91
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Registered: 06-2003
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 205
Karma: 3 (+3/-0)
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
Probably not 6 months, but I don't think it would be out of line if I said there are heifers out there that are six weeks older than their paper says they are. We just had our district show a few weeks ago, and in some of the smaller classes half of the class was born on the 1st day of the show month. I'm sorry, but the law of averages just won't allow that. Especially when these animals are in some cases 4 inches bigger than everything else in the class.
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16/7/2003, 18:49
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Moo2you2
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Registered: 06-2003
Posts: 6
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
Great topic of conversation about the commercial aspect of showing, and perhaps getting slightly sidetracked by getting on too fixing....... though it makes for an interesting debate, I really don't see anything wrong with sealing teats..... by not allowing it youre giving the advantage to the hard drawn, slow milking cows..... Whats wrong with it? youre just giving the cow an opportunity to fill her udder with milk...... besides usually a cow that needs sealing is one thats been calved longer and if she is still in the right body condition to show, she deserves every opportunity to get out in that ring.....
Besides how many times have you walked down a market and seen cows with a ring of collodion around the base of their teats, a black kettle springs too mind :moo
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17/7/2003, 11:35
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Will Richardson
Cowtalk Staff
Global user
Registered: 06-2003
Location: Close to a pub
Posts: 1350
Karma: 14 (+14/-0)
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
Bit sad when some of these showmen cannot bag a cow up correctly without resorting to sealing the teats. A half decent show cow shouldnt need this manipulation.I think its banned in the UK anyway, with the Holstein Society fining members heavily if they are caught doing it.STOP the cheating and give all those who show a fair crack of the whip
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17/7/2003, 11:57
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Matt W
Local user
Registered: 07-2003
Posts: 11
Karma: 0 (+0/-0)
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
For me the issue on fixing /sealing teats comes down to what would the consumer think if it were to be permitted in the UK? I dont think they would approve, to put it politely - and so an enforced ban is the most sensible policy. Whether the cow looks better etc pales into insignificance when you consider the potential damage to our customer relations.
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17/7/2003, 12:28
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indiesviewgw
EX91
Global user
Registered: 06-2003
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 205
Karma: 3 (+3/-0)
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
I've never seen in any of the show rules where it says that you can't seal teats. A lot of show cows are going to the ring with 24+ hours in their rear quarters. I don't care who you are, but there's not a fitter alive who can keep cows from leaking when they are that full. Sealing teats doesn't hurt the cow or the milk she produces, so I what's the problem here? Feel free to tell me where I'm going wrong this.
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17/7/2003, 14:21
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Will Richardson
Cowtalk Staff
Global user
Registered: 06-2003
Location: Close to a pub
Posts: 1350
Karma: 14 (+14/-0)
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Re: Show Cows- Vanity or Sanity?
Apart from setting the topline its just about illegal in the UK to glue,seal,gas or drug a cow.It is against show rules in the UK and it is definitely against the Animal Welfare Act.If the general public ever heard of farmers doing these things to a cow in the UK, the Animal Liberation Front may well be round our houses with petrol bombs or, our barns could mysteriously be torched in the middle of the night.Plus the fact that the media would never leave us alone.It aint worth the risk doing it in the UK.A herd was caught sealing teats at the Dairy Event a few years back ..the Holstein Society fined them and I believe the fitter was sacked on the spot.
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17/7/2003, 17:10
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