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FiringOnAllFour
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Goes to show how fickle classification can be.
:look
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17/6/2004, 15:34
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FiringOnAllFour
Ex97
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Possible Mckeague.
There is a lot of variation in the way animals are presented for classification. Some farmers go into great detail, clipping and hoof trimming and holding milk on them etc., while others pull them straight out in their working clothes. And a classifier couldn't be blamed for not being able to score them equally. They are just human.
I have two journalists that will classify well when the time comes. And that will laugh in the face of the real milkers in the herd. To me, appearance is only skin deep.
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18/6/2004, 10:00
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canuk
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
FOAF - Earlier in this thread you said you had calved 20+ Leducs, are these the real milkers? Also when you take your wife out to dinner, do you take her in her barn clothes, or would you prefer to have her dress up a bit?
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18/6/2004, 12:47
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FiringOnAllFour
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Oooohhh. Smous. I fear that was a dig at the Canadian cow more than at me!
I used him to put a little more 'cow' into the smaller ones. He did that in most cases. I might not like Leduc, but in the long run, some leg and frame in the pedigree might not do so much harm.
I used something extreme to bring an improvement in size quickly. Leduc on a small cow doesn't produce a 'great big.. wooden horse'. It produces something in between. Thank the Lord they inherited some milk from their mothers!
Secondly, no....the leducs are not the real milkers, and very well you know it!
Finally, if I compared my wife to a cow, she would probably kill me. And I would take her out to dinner to eat, rather than to be scored on conformation. By the way, I am not married.
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18/6/2004, 15:44
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canuk
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
FOAF - I like your thinking, with the comment some leg and frame in a pedigree should do no harm. My wife would kill me, if I compaird her to a cow to. She works hard, and I love her dearly, but even to go out to eat, she herself likes to dress the part. (and does so quite well I might add)
If I'd seen her for the 1st time in her work clothes, she may not have been so appealing to me. If one has a valuable animal, it is no crime, to make her look her best, but having said that a good classifier, should be able to see a cow for what she is, regardless of her envirnmeant. Any that can't, can always get a job working for an A.I stud.
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18/6/2004, 19:09
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Big Bird
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
quote:
FiringOnAllFour wrote:
I used him to put a little more 'cow' into the smaller ones. He did that in most cases. I might not like Leduc, but in the long run, some leg and frame in the pedigree might not do so much harm.
I used something extreme to bring an improvement in size quickly. Leduc on a small cow doesn't produce a 'great big.. wooden horse'. It produces something in between. Thank the Lord they inherited some milk from their mothers!
Surely your not saying there is room in a pedigree for a bull thats not high production if he can improve type?
:hehe
I have heard from a couple of classifiers that if the cow is set up too well they look extra hard for what the farmer is trying to hide.
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18/6/2004, 21:14
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foxleigh
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
on an aside - when we got married on the way to the reception hubby had to fill out a classification sheet on me - our driver was then a holstein classifier and then Doug Savage (he was one of the ones who got up to speak)analized it at the reception with lots of asides about constructor bulls!(hubby is a solid 6 ftr)
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18/6/2004, 21:56
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Cowpower
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Spose something like that all right Mckeague. Common sense would have to overule all boundaries when classifying this heifer though. Pity you live way up yonder. Charleville would be a worthwhile venture for you. Like to hear your opinion after viewing. Gonna be a good show anyways. Oh an sorry lads, lacking in the computer lingo but whats FOAF. can figure it 
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18/6/2004, 22:07
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canuk
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
I agree they probably do look extra hard for faults if a heifer is really done up nice. At the same time, I feel some classifiers may be a little intimidated, when going into some of the real top herds, don't think there is much we can do about it, as it is true they are only human.
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18/6/2004, 22:59
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smous
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
quote:
FiringOnAllFour wrote:
Oooohhh. Smous. I fear that was a dig at the Canadian cow more than at me!
Nah! Never mentioned the Canadiens, that was you. It was a dig at Leduc in particular and Jed sons in general. Can't blame the canuks for him, even if they have taken him to their bosom. Why FOAF, do YOU equate Canadian genetics with 'great big, inefficient, grub guzzling, wooden horses'?
Seriously, in my opinion, bulls like Leduc epitomise everything that is wrong with the extreme right wing of the breed. (Winchester and Celsius are examples of leftwing extremism, but that is another matter altogether.) Surely the term show ring freak should never have come into our vocabulary unless it meant 'absolute perfection' and not giraffe. If Leduc is the #2 seller for Alta in Canada, heaven help the Canadians, and what are they thinking? Ah well, live and let live, each to his own and as Indies said one man's meat is another man's poison.
Last edited by smous, 19/6/2004, 6:09
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WWS-SA
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19/6/2004, 5:36
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FiringOnAllFour
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
quote:
Big Bird wrote:
Surely your not saying there is room in a pedigree for a bull thats not high production if he can improve type?
:hehe
Hey, I'm trying hard to look on the positive side. Figured I would be kind to the Canadians for a change!
The two milkiest leducs are now peaking at 38l/d. The interesting thing is that both their dams are sired by Eastland Cash and were very productive. Another generation of index on them might resurrect the production of the past.
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19/6/2004, 11:38
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canuk
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
neighbour just sold 1 of his big grub guzzling wooden horses, $40,000. Good thing it wasn't his most inefficient one, that would not make sence. Sometimes wonder if we would sell as much as we do, if we listened to guys like you. One question for both of you, have either of you been to Canada, to see just how bad it really is?
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19/6/2004, 12:41
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canuk
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Fair enough Smous, I can believe some of our cows/bulls would do you more harm than good, Writely or wrongly it is type, that we have no problem selling. I am aware that type means differant things to differant people, so let me refrasise that to "Canadian type" In the past we have been known to produce some of those wooden horses you refer to, but in the last 10 or so years, have gotten away from them for the most part. In fact you would have trouble finding a wooden horse at a show here, and if you did, she would be placed at or near the bottom of her class, where she probably belongs. There is a huge differance between big, and framey, and woody.
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19/6/2004, 16:00
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Cowpower
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Thank you Brian. What was the name of the Leduc that made 40 grand Canuk. I personally think Leducs worse fault is the fact that their so gutless. The bad ones are sickening.Too many bad ones around too. Have to admit the good ones are super though.
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20/6/2004, 22:44
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canuk
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Guess all those Canadians useing him, like milking gutless donkeys. Don't know anyone silly enough to use this bull across the board, anyone that does deserves what they get. Used selectively not many can match him, its in his proof.
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21/6/2004, 14:09
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CHARITY
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Leduc had these problems before his second crop came out so why attack him now.Anybody that knows of any bad Leducs i will bett any money that its the breeding not the bull that caused most of the mistakes.Would use him on Red Markers Raiders and Allens.
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1/7/2004, 2:54
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IndiesViewGD
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Wouldn't suggest those matings we used Leduc on big powerful cows and got wood chucks I think he needs to be used on a clean dairy cow.
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1/7/2004, 3:23
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raffaelediciommo
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
I will use Leduc on Morty, or maybe i mean i will use morty on Leduc, since he is older; on Aerostar Blood Lines and Storm ones.
Do you agree? using him so we got some nice heifers.
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1/7/2004, 6:39
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IndiesViewGD
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Re: What Bull Sank Faster Then The Titanic?
Even though his AAA code or his proof doesn't say it in my own experience Leduc is not a sharp breeding bull. I think he will work best on open-ribbed dairy cows who have good udders and give a lot of milk.
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1/7/2004, 13:51
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