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ben yates3
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Picston Shottle
Have just start to calf in my shottle heifers,and i am pleased so far yet I do have one problem with the bull and that is the size of his calves as he is sold as a bull for use on heifers when I said to my rep again he told me it is the year is anybody else having this problem
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14/7/2007, 20:38
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Will Richardson
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Re: Picston Shottle
Always going to get decent sized calves with Shottle calving ease aint a problem.. Shaker his brother could give massive calves.
Already milking Shottles here .. if you can get him use him the bull is real
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14/7/2007, 23:26
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noname25
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Re: Picston Shottle
We have had quite alot of Shottle calfs and all from big cows. Most pregnancies this far have been ET but we are now having alot of our own cows calving to him. I cant remember ever having a problem with a shottle calf. I did write a subject about Dundee a few months back about the problems we had with him!!
Having said that about 3 days ago we pulled a Shottle bull off a second calver, she wouldnt have done it herself but it wasnt "silly big"
The shottle calfs seem to come out long and big muzzled and usually have large joints but they slide out quite nicely - generally a welcome combination.
I have heard a few people say they havent been getting great ET results when flushing to him?? anymore word on this? do you think you get more heifers or bulls Ben??
Also we have sold less Shottle embryos lately because they were worried about % of bulls... I even had one breeder who wanted a flush from a cow. When i suggested Shottle he said he'd rather not purely because of his experience with too many bulls!! Any thoughts on this??
Loford Holsteins
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16/7/2007, 10:03
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fraser6
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Picston Shottle
To date we have calved 5shottle calves (3heifers 2bulls) all from cows, all calved themselves,not overly big calves either.
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17/7/2007, 21:33
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rgw
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Picston Shottle
We have used Shottle almost exclusively on maiden heifers mainly to get more pregnancies per straw . havent had any significnt problems calving them . Most fall into the "just big enough for a heifer" category but would confidently use him again on first timers
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18/7/2007, 11:40
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fraser6
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Re: Picston Shottle
Well tonight i went to see a shottle heifer in a commercial herd who was 7days calved,i had been very keen to see her as i've only seen the young heifers we have(not yet in milk),i was very disappointed in this individual,i do not know the dam or her breeding,but this shottle heifer was not what i was expecting at all,high pins,narrow rump,cow hocked,i realise not every daughter isn't going to be outstanding but i must say i was very disappointed with her.
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20/8/2007, 21:46
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FIBRO
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Re: Picston Shottle
Good to hear someone else is in the same boat. I have 10 Shottles milking now and only 2 decent ones. All are from decent cows. I am very disappointed in my results with him.
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21/8/2007, 9:01
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VVR
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Picston Shottle
I think that now it's very difficult day something on the Shottle daughters, when you have a straw that had a price of 80€ you use this on a very good cow I think. And good cows give often good daughters
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21/8/2007, 11:40
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fraser6
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Picston Shottle
i was a big fan of shottle,after looking at his progeny on HUK it's fair to say that he is capable of throwing bad progeny like any other bull,personally i think if you use him on a well proven cow you will get good results,but as for changing the quality of a commercial heard the jury is still very much out in my opinion,especially with his semen price. i wonder how many commercial herds have chosen him for their tank!
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21/8/2007, 17:13
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ryanns
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Re: Picston Shottle
saw four second crop milking shottles today all looked sound animals well attached udders legs and feet were good too nice clean bone, they were a little bit small and imature but most of the heifers in the herd were, all were out of ordinary cows
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23/8/2007, 22:03
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davlaw
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Picston Shottle
We've calved in 8 all strong bodies and nailed on udders. we're a commercial pedigree unit where our average heifer classification is round 80-81 pts all 7 will be higher a couple ought to be vg. We've got another 20 in the pipeline there's better ones still to come. as calves they were big calves but they were the right shape and calved easily. only issue we had we're to get 27 heifers we had 125 bulls!!!!
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25/8/2007, 12:40
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FIBRO
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Picston Shottle
I agree regarding the bull calves. However, whilst I agree that shottle will probably only be used on 'good' cows now because of his price. This would not have always been the case when he was on test and later after his first release. When he would have surely proven his worth on a lot of 'average' cows. However, some of the heifers that I am disappointed with were never evaluated!
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30/8/2007, 11:39
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fraser6
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Picston Shottle
This is when our neighbour (and us) used him, when he was first released,we used him on 'ordinary cows' and not just our top cows,i honestly don't think they will score any better than all the rest of our heifers.
I think in 4-5 years time you'll tell whether he's a world class bull. My father in law always says you never know a good bull til he's dead!
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30/8/2007, 17:45
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davlaw
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Picston Shottle
we only paid between £16-20 for all of ours took a large gamble on his first proof. we'd used most of it before the price rocketed so he was used on anything
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31/8/2007, 18:17
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Bullpen
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Re: Picston Shottle
Is that my travelling companion Dave Lawson from Yorkshire?
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31/8/2007, 18:48
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davlaw
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Picston Shottle
afarid not dave lawrence from devon
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3/9/2007, 8:33
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titantom
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 Re: Picston Shottle
breeder just near me has calved his 1st four shottles all are blind in a quarter one blind in two!
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6/9/2007, 16:05
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errolston
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Picston Shottle
We have had a run of heifers recently calving out blind in one quarter, 2 x Talent, 1 Storm, 1 Outside and 1 by a herd bull, all this summer. Extremely frustrating.
My father spoke to a couple of guys who had also experienced this problem this summer.
Last edited by errolston, 7/9/2007, 9:01
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7/9/2007, 8:30
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Picston Shottle
We had that kind of luck last year. Does anyone know the cause of it? ....or is it a genetic thing that us holstein breeders will have to get used to more and more in the future with inbreeding etc?
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7/9/2007, 13:52
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FiringOnAllFour
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Re: Picston Shottle
Its certainly not something we have to get used to. We're annoyed, cross, frustrated when it happens, and rightly so. I, for one, wouldn't accept it in the name of pure breeding. But I reckon that it might have a more environmental background with most cases. No proof, just a hunch.
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7/9/2007, 15:44
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LRG
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Re: Picston Shottle
my guess would be if a group of them came at the same time it would probably be environmental, but one or 2 chances are are genetic.
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7/9/2007, 15:51
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triday1
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Picston Shottle
normlly we blame it on a sucker(heifer nursing) in the group...
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7/9/2007, 19:32
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foxleigh
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Picston Shottle
agree totaly
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7/9/2007, 22:15
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dairylands
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Picston Shottle
I was blaming it on summer mastitis as a maiden heifer. We have only ever had one case. Is your theory that vigorous sucking damages the quarter?
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8/9/2007, 9:00
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errolston
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Picston Shottle
I agree that it probably an environmental issue.
I doubt it it is a sucker, I may be wrong but it is extremely rare for us to have calves suckling each other and if they do it tends to be navels rather than teats that they suck.
Last edited by errolston, 8/9/2007, 9:43
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8/9/2007, 9:42
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FiringOnAllFour
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Re: Picston Shottle
Its not so much calves, as when they get older.
If they are out in the field in the summer, they could be doing anything, and you might not know, because as soon as you drive up, they all come to the gate.
I tend to notice it when they come in as bullers and we are looking at them a lot.
I have nose spikes on a couple of milking cows at the moment.
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8/9/2007, 14:37
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