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Buze77
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I have a durham x dante. Turns out she is a nice little cow. Of course that mating is pretty similar to what Damions pedigree looks like.
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11/5/2008, 9:54
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
I once seen a catalogue@ Prelude x Prelude incalf to "Prelude"!!..unfortunately didnt see the animal.
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11/5/2008, 12:31
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JEB12
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I am milking a Ramos x Adam x Rudolph right now that is actually a nice cow.
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11/5/2008, 16:41
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Jeash
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Re: …
My father bred a Highlight out of 12 generations of VG or EX back to Highlight. He did it when she was a heifer, he misread her eartag number and we didn't figure out the mistake until she was checked pregnant. The resulting calf went on to be exellent 90 with several 28,000-30,000 pound records and made around 150,000 lifetime. The funny thing is that the she was very fertile which I guess is odd for Highlights. Maybe it was like multiplying two negative numbers together to get a positive.
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11/5/2008, 17:06
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foxleigh
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Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
we once milked a cow who had the same cow as grand dam on 3 lines of the pedigree - she was the grand dam of the dam and her sire as well as the grand dam of the bull that sired the cow
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14/5/2008, 10:06
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moores af
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
In his book '60 years of farming', the late John Moffitt describes an expiriment he carried out where he bred the bull Hunday Adema 88 on his daughters for 4 generations. ie the resulting calf's sire stack was
Adema 88 x Adema 88 x Adema 88 x Adema 88
He said "the animal, although red in colour and male, bore little evidence of inbreeding recessives and in fact he was 87% Adema 88"
On mentioning Mr. Moffitt, I think I should note that he passed away last week (Tuesday 6th May). I didn't know him but I read the book and found it most interesting. He was a very influential person on the development of black & white cattle in the UK, in shaping the AI industry, and developing the concept of ET into common practise, amongst many other achievements. I would like to extend my sympathies to his friends and family, should any of them be reading this.
Phillip
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14/5/2008, 14:00
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
We bought some eggs a few years ago from Braedale Baler Twine x her brother Goodluck. Have 4 daughers. One VG heifer, 1 84 who should go VG another one I really like who id like VG-2nd calver and the other who is OK just-not enough milk.
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14/5/2008, 22:58
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
O also have a heifer milking now- our Jurmel Heather cow was bulled with her sweeper bull full brother and the resulting calf is this heifer thats milking. Actually a fairly decent milker with a really good udder just a little bit light but I HATE her-keeps kickin the units off. Is there a tendency for inbred animals to hvae a screw loose?
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14/5/2008, 23:02
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ben warren
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
I'm sure I've seen a pedigree on cowtalk that's features Advent, Talent and Red Marker as the closest 3 sires. Wood you believe that?
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15/5/2008, 7:56
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JeffNYRC
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
Another would be a rampage daughter sold at the greenlea sale out of a rubens. Rampage's dam is Lavender Ruby Redrose, also a rubens. So double the rubens, and going back, double the Triple Threat.
Why sire companies sell bulls that are used on MANY herds, that are inbred, or wait LINEBRED, forgot its fancier when its called linebreeding. When you have inbreeding coef. of 16%, then as time goes on, more and more doubling up of bulls such as double durham, double rubens, etc..
Id post a picture of that talentxadventxredmarker, but here its pointless  , nice calf too. Dairy, deep, square rump, decent legs (similar to her dam's)..
Jeff
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"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
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15/5/2008, 14:31
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svennis
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
So Jeff, why do you criticise ai companies for producing inbred animals, if you do nothing different?!
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15/5/2008, 14:56
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
I know a fair few US men seem to be crossing Durhams with Dundee
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15/5/2008, 20:26
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JEB12
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
quote:
JeffNYRC wrote:
Id post a picture of that talentxadventxredmarker, but here its pointless , nice calf too. Dairy, deep, square rump, decent legs (similar to her dam's)..
Jeff
quote:
quote:
So you are saying that inbreeding may work for you but should not be implemented by anyone else?????
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15/5/2008, 21:20
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foxleigh
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Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
hey whats wrong with doubling up threat..... our current herd bull is by threat x inspiration x threat and the calves are fantastic..... even the one that is by this bull from his half bro by encore daughter.(1/2 brox1/2 bro)
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15/5/2008, 21:49
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JeffNYRC
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
I've inbred beef cattle by accident, the results are interesting. They grow like weeds, they seem to calve out fine, however would I do it again? No, because it was a case of mismanagement.
If you do it, keep it in the herd, and in all honesty the calves should be kept on the farm, and if sold, sold without papers so they cant influence the breed (go to some farm that will flush said animal, that could result in some bull going to AI or otherwise). With this all said, some bulls in some sire stacks, if you dig deep enough, does show that they are in fact related.. I forget which bulls, but I found Ivanhoe in several bulls that have been used on each other (cow was sired by Bull A, resulting heifer was sired by Bull B, and both had Ivanhoe in their pedigree)..
It happens, and its why there isn't a inbreeding coef of 0%, many are 5%. So Jeb, no one should inbreed, if you found that you made a mistake, then thats understandable. However PURPOSELY/KNOWINGLY doing it, not a good scenario, and ive never said that anyone should do it.
Jeff
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"You can't lose if you don't expect to win." - My show philosophy.
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15/5/2008, 21:54
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foxleigh
Ex97
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
quote:
JeffNYRC[/wrote
If you do it, keep it in the herd, and in all honesty the calves should be kept on the farm, and if sold, sold without papers so they cant influence the breed
Jeff
I take offence at this!There is far more junk out there trading hands at enormous prices than my few inbred animals.
First of all you have to have a goal in mind and know what where you have been.I bought a flush by skagvale emphasis from a 9 gen EX cowfamily where the dam was sired by a son of his.I was trying to fluke another Skagvale emphasis elie EX 95 by using the same sire on another member of the same family.I got a bull and a heifer - the bull went to the calfscale as his legs and feet and rump were the crap you would expect with doubling up chief mark closely.The heifer calves next spring and is "not bad".Time will tell.
I spent 7 years milking a grade herd and after 6 years of fighting with cows that were full of the mainstream bloodlines I said to the guy.I will rear you 2 et full bros - then I will know the bulls are quiet and having milked 3 gen where we are going.I never milked any of the progeny but that guy has bought up to 5 bulls a year from us for the last 9 years.He doesnt do anymore AI,doesnt reg but does herdtest.He has used sons of country eliegay,sons from the gorwood valentines among others,most of the bulls have full sisters here.He now has such a surplus of heifers he has an extra income.
My answer to all the critics when we left the road in the 90s is we are still here! where are you?
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16/5/2008, 0:59
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Buze77
EX93
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Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
I've been breeding my Durhams to Dundee and Encore. Seems to make a good cross and so far no calves with 5 legs or two tails. I agree inbreeding is not something is not something I try to do. But if the mating is best suited for the dam and the results from the mating are proven to be successful I try to follow suit. I know it does not seem very bold and out of the box, but as I try to build my herd I don't want to make too many mistakes if I don't have to. But I am sure I have already made plenty of choices that haven't been teh best but learned from them. I am sure their are plenty more I will make.
Not to be disrespectful, but a animal that is bred from the same bull 3 or 4 generations in a row seems a little more like a mad scientist then practicing good animal husbandry. His breedings must have taken place long before the advice of COWTALK members was available.
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16/5/2008, 2:29
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triday1
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Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
I've got a full brother/full sister(on purpose) cow in the barn, she went 86 a week fresh and I anticpate will be excellent later on in the year. She was a homely heifer which we didn't expect but is turning into a right nice cow and we got phenomal legs which is what we wanted to test by inbreeding the ashlyn stuff.
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20/5/2008, 14:11
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JonnykelsoII
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Re: Ever seen a pedigree that make you go oops!
Triday isnt that the heifer that was out in the field when I was baling at urs?
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21/5/2008, 0:13
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