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ravenstein
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Lucky Mike

Is anybody using this bull or have an opinion on him? He is a Lucky Leo x Celsius and is sold by Alta Genetics here in Canada. He is being marketed as a good outcross sire. I don't know alot about this bull or his bloodlines. Any advice would be much appreciated.
13/10/2004, 12:45   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

I think he is a good bull. Haven't seen any daughters yet, but his figures are impressive. Talked to one of Alta's sire analysts and this was his comment:

Although she was only GP84, Mike's dam was one of the highest classified cows in the herd. They simply never have any VG's there (very rough environment), hence she had a decent type proof. Mike's daughters are tall and long with sloping rumps, beautiful side views he told me. From the rear they have very straight legs, good locomotion, and although his linear suggests otherwise legs side view tends to be slightly curved. Udders are of good quality, but attachments could be better, and ligaments are not that clearly defined. Good milking udders, but not well enough attached for showing.

Next dams after Celsius by:
Delta Cleitus Jabot
Skalsumer Sunny Boy
Ruann Golden Nugget Klark
K-Way Apostle King Vic

Alta has an open day in December where they are planning to show some daughters. I will have a look then.

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13/10/2004, 13:43   
 
Craig Davidson
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Re: Lucky Mike

I spent some time visiting herds in Holland three years ago, when the Lucky Leo second crop heifers were milking. I was very impressed with them. Very consistent type, good udders, open rib.

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13/10/2004, 14:03   
 
peternl
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Re: Lucky Mike

We have about fifteen pregnancies. In my opinion he sires huge extreme showframes, strong f&l and average udders. The weakest points are thurl with and ligament. He looks like the most complete lucky leo son at the moment.

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Milking 54 cows; Herd Classification 1EX -25VG - 22GP -5G - 1NC; Annual Milk Average 9641 - 4.2% 405 - 3.5% 337 kgs
14/10/2004, 21:13   
 
ravenstein
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Re: Lucky Mike

Thanks so much guys for your opinions. I'm now wondering what bloodlines you might use him on and which ones you would avoid like the plague. Our bulls used come mainly from Semex and Select Sires.
14/10/2004, 21:36   
 
errolston
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Re: Lucky Mike

If Lucky Leos are anything to go by, use him on cows with a bit of front end and keep to cows with a clean bone.

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Errolston_Holsteins updated 27th October 2007.
14/10/2004, 22:26   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

Protect him on rear udders (height and ligament) and use him on high pinned cows with wide rumps.

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15/10/2004, 6:08   
 
Jurjan Groenveld
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Re: Lucky Mike

I must add that between the sunny boy and the klark is an astro jet daughter so the pedigree of lucky mike is:

Frankenhof Lucky Leo x Etazon Celcius x Delta Cleitus Jabot x Skalsumer Sunny Boy x Bridon Astro Jet x Ruann Golden Nugget Klark x K-Way Apostle King Vic

He is also an extreme calving ease sire and above average for lactation persistence
aAa is 153
15/10/2004, 19:33   
 
canuk

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Re: Lucky Mike

At $42 bucks Can, hard to believe he will get much use here. Only 4 bulls at semex are money Allen, Titanic, and Morty at $50, Gibson at $45.
15/10/2004, 19:37   
 
Will Richardson
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Re: Lucky Mike

 Welcome to how sires are priced in the UK.

 ps Allen is £33 a jump ......... whatever that converts at.
15/10/2004, 23:01   
 
foxleigh
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Re: Lucky Mike

I leave the old man alone for the day and he orders 25 straws .....
all because he is linebred to old milly.
Is there any more to say about this bull before I let him loose on the herd?
23/11/2004, 8:00   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

I will have a look at them next week when Alta will present Lucky Mike's daughters to the public at their Dairy Day.

So far I've seen one, in the showring (she is out of a Celsius). Nice, big framed cow, nice topline, very balanced, with a good udder but could do with a stronger ligament. Could also be a bit cleaner through the legs, but I wouldn't mind having a couple of those in the barn.

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23/11/2004, 9:02   
 
MarkDay
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Re: Lucky Mike

quote:
Gerbrich wrote:

I will have a look at them next week when Alta will present Lucky Mike's daughters to the public at their Dairy Day.



I'm coming over for Alta's open day on the 3rd of December should be interesting to see the Lucky Mike's and the Dynasty's.


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23/11/2004, 19:45   
 
errolston
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Re: Lucky Mike

Foxleigh,

I am surprised to see that you are using this bull. There was a photo of his dam in a recent Holstein International, and she looked decidedly ordinary, good plus looked a high enough score.

Linebreeding to Milly didn't do Hanoverhill Lincoln much good!

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Errolston_Holsteins updated 27th October 2007.
23/11/2004, 23:19   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

quote:
MarkDay wrote:

quote:
Gerbrich wrote:

I will have a look at them next week when Alta will present Lucky Mike's daughters to the public at their Dairy Day.



I'm coming over for Alta's open day on the 3rd of December should be interesting to see the Lucky Mike's and the Dynasty's.


Don't think there will be any Dynasty's. There is a group of Breakouts though (and his family). Spoke to an Alta guy at the HHH show who told me that these cows have developed extremely well and that they didn't have any problems to find enough cows in 2nd and 3rd lactation to put a group together. Another bull with daughters is Frankenhof Accoord (Aaron x Esquimau from Graefin family). He doesn't have a proof yet but seems to be a promising one for February.

Any chance of a cowtalk get together then? Any others going?

quote:
I am surprised to see that you are using this bull. There was a photo of his dam in a recent Holstein International, and she looked decidedly ordinary, good plus looked a high enough score.

Linebreeding to Milly didn't do Hanoverhill Lincoln much good!



Don't worry Errolston. Lucky Mike was bred for survival. It is a very rough commercial herd. His dam got stuck in a cubicle the story is.

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24/11/2004, 7:25   
 
foxleigh
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Re: Lucky Mike

well it surprised me too but like i said the best salesman in the industry got a hold of dear beloved and he actually picked up the phone and ordered which is usually my job and i wouldve done a bit more research first .I sincerely hope they arent as narky as the lincolns a bull we used a bit of and only have 1 left.
I did get waved under my nose the alta guff (minus a type breakdown - dont they love to do this!!!) and some of the stuff goes
"#1 type bull in holland
Lucky mikes are tall, long framed,and box rumped.They have stylish heads,stylish front ends(what is the definition of style I wonder)they are stylish from the side,stlish on the move and they have stylish rear ends with slope.(gets worse)
Lucky mikes have that extra rib youve heard about when one is trying to describe lucky leo.that uphill,high chine and frame extension,that lengthens necks, sets the leg and drop the pins and all done with STYLE" writen by Larry Schirm
 so I guess we are gonna get some stylish calves.I shall keep you posted!
24/11/2004, 7:39   
 
MarkDay
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Re: Lucky Mike

Shame there won't be a Dynasty group , my Alta rep sold me on the trip by saying that we would see some.

Can't complain I suppose as they are paying for my travelling expenses!

Hope to see you there then Gerbrich.

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30/11/2004, 13:40   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

Ok Mark, hope to see you too.

Are you doing some farm visits as well then that you maybe will see the Dynasty's there? I know there are a couple not too far from the farm where they have the Dairy Day.

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30/11/2004, 14:01   
 
MarkDay
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Re: Lucky Mike

We are just coming over for the day so I doubt we will get to see any other farms.I might ring my rep and see if anything can be arranged.

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30/11/2004, 14:07   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

Holland is only the size of Wales, Mark, and then without the winding roads and hills. You can do a lot in one day.

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30/11/2004, 15:06   
 
AndrewR
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Re: Lucky Mike

Hol-Stiens, Southland and Isslivliedt are all well worth a visit if you can get there Mark
1/12/2004, 12:31   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

Hol-Stiens is at one end and Southland is at the other end of Holland. IJsselvliedt is right in the middle and closest to the Alta Dairy Day. I believe some of their Roza cows will be at the event anyway to support Breakout.

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1/12/2004, 12:50   
 
AndrewR
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Re: Lucky Mike

Apologies Gerbrich, my geography is terrible. But it is faster to get from one end of the other than Wales, believe me!
1/12/2004, 12:53   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

Yes, but we do have a lot more traffic (Wales doesn't have 16 million people. OK,OK, we have less sheep), so it would still take 3 hours to get from one place to the other if you don't get stuck.

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1/12/2004, 13:05   
 
MarkDay
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Re: Lucky Mike

Had a great day on friday so thanks to Alta for arranging it.

The Lucky Mikes were very impressive and will no doubt make some fancy cattle,just watch out for inset tail heads.

The Accords were very similar to what you would see with Aaron daughters ,sound legs and feet and nice udders.There was one that I liked a lot that I think was out of a Blackstar dam.

As well as the Breakout daughters they had his dam,grandam and sister on display.
Quite and impressive feat.
The sister was by convincer and was a great cow.I would imagine she will have many sons in AI.

The less said about the Lotto's the better!!

There was a staggering 4500 farmers at the event-if the same event was organised in the UK I bet there would be less than 10% of that turn up.

Gerbrich,I saw you there chatting to someone.I came back a few minutes later but you had gone.

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5/12/2004, 21:46   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

Mark, I hope you got to see more of the cows than I did. Been talking to a lot of people, Canadian, Brits, Northern Irish, etc. etc. Were you with Andrew Heaton? Saw him in line waiting for coffee.

I really liked the Lucky Mikes, super udder attachments, tall, good frames. I thought his weakest point were some weak pasterns (if you wanted to comment on anything). First three cows were super.

Breakouts were OK, but have to watch fore udder attachments a bit with the Labelle coming through occasionally. The commercial men liked them.

Am I the only one that wasn't too impressed with the locomotion of the Accoord daughters? Although they had very good bone quality some were hocking in and had problems walking straight. I had the impression there was something wrong with thurl position.

I think next time Alta has to look for a bigger venue, like an equestrian centre. It was far to busy and chaotic. Lots of people got stuck with their cars in the heavy clay soil.

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6/12/2004, 8:41   
 
MarkDay
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Re: Lucky Mike

I was about 5 rows back stood around the ring when the Accords came in so I couldn't see them walk very well! By the time the Lucky Mikes came in I had made my way to the front thanks to some tips I picked up from the Dutch farmers at the coffee queue!!
I arrived with Andrew but soon lost him in the crowds!
 
I was told that the best Breakout daughters weren’t there because they were stale or dry. The one's that were certainly showed weakness in the fore udder attachment (just like the bulls mother) but they had decent texture and ligament so they might wear OK.


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9/12/2004, 14:43   
 
Gerbrich
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Re: Lucky Mike

quote:
MarkDay wrote:

By the time the Lucky Mikes came in I had made my way to the front thanks to some tips I picked up from the Dutch farmers at the coffee queue!!


aaah, you discovered the Dutch way of queueing!

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9/12/2004, 14:56   
 
foxleigh
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Re: Lucky Mike

well the first 3 calves are here....
a heifer and a bull are from et full raider sisters from a rengade x linmack from the mighty felicity....
verdict not tall , not strong, not agressive feeders -the bull calf is now 3 days old still being stomach tubed as he has no intrest in sucking at all.hopefully he will survive long enuf for the calf scale and the heifer is struggling to get a feed in a group of 4 others being 2 wilonna deliverys,an encore dreamer and a raider king.
the other heifer (lucky mike x james )is still tied up and fed alone as I doubt she will compete altho monday I plan to shift her in with the udders.
I spoke to a neighbour who also has calves on the ground and he said he had one who was a totaly hopeless feeder, 2 real agressive types and the rest there but not doing.he also tapped several on the head that were born with all gnarled and twisted legs/joints.
I have more to come.
However he does appear to be calving ease as these calves are smaller than church mice!


Last edited by foxleigh, 20/11/2005, 7:17
15/11/2005, 11:26   
 
foxleigh
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…

well I think I know why everyone only feeds their holstein calves 2l of milk once a day!
my wretched bull calf after 3 days of 2x daily tubing now will suck one 2l bottle voluntarily in the morning.come the nighttime he wont have a bar of it ,appears to completely have forgotton how to suck and gets tubed!No wonder everyone feeds once a day!

thank god they pick up calves in the morning!
20/11/2005, 7:21   
 


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