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Stratman70
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
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KillerBananas wrote:
Well, you got them both (RBTC and MTC). What would you say, honestly, is the difference between them?
The main difference is that the RBTC affects the volume pot too much. The MTC doesn't do that. The sound with the MTC is getting brighter at lower volumes. With the RBTC it doesn't.
On the other hand: the RBTC seems to come closer to Ritchie's sound at lower volumes, which is why I like it so much. The sound is thicker and has more 'character' than the MTC.
But I can tell you better when I have my Mex. RB Strat equipped with the Gold Lace sensors and the RBTC and I can change them directly when playing and recording the same piece while keeping all other settings (on guitar and the rest) the same.
So I'd better come back to this later.
But for now: they are a bit different, but I like them both so far.
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"I believe in God, Blackmore & Stratocasters" - Stratman70
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31/8/2009, 17:04
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Stratman70
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
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Rezi wrote:
Great playing, Stratman!
Great sounds on both links, too.
Thanks Rezi! Always great to hear that.
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"I believe in God, Blackmore & Stratocasters" - Stratman70
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31/8/2009, 17:06
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Stratman70
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
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Apostate wrote:
SEXY!!!
Yes and I can touch & caress her too!
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"I believe in God, Blackmore & Stratocasters" - Stratman70
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31/8/2009, 17:09
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mijfenders
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
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KillerBananas wrote:
quote:
Stratman70 wrote:
quote:
mijfenders wrote:
Very good, nice sound. Out of interest what sort of settings did you have on the BSM and POD( which amp model ) and was the guitar full up for the Kill the King piece? You can hear the gold lace pickups here, very nice.
Thank you mijfenders!
The problem with the POD is that the signal from the BSA may be too loud for it, so the signal into the POD will be clipping. So I had to set everything very soft: the gain of the BSM is set on half open but the EQ is full open. The POD 2.0 is set on Brit hi gain, adding a little drive and copression. The guitar is set very soft with volume at 3 or 4.
At 1.52 minutes you can hear the MTC very good: neck pick up at volume 3. I'm very satisfied with the MTC, but as you know, I also have the RBTC which I had in my guitar and will be build in my Mex RB model strat, as soon as I have the Lace Sensors. I was (I am) also very satisfied with the RBTC too, but I couldn't stop the idea of trying the MTC myself, because of all the fuzz about it (does it work or not) so I bought one from Dawk. Now that I swapped the RBTC for the MTC, I let it be as it is for now.
But the RBTC still sounds great. Not my best playing on this btw, but a nice sound too I think.
Well, you got them both (RBTC and MTC). What would you say, honestly, is the difference between them?
StratMan: Thanks for the info very interesing how you've tackled it and a nice sound as well. The POD though is going to contribute hugely to what we are hearing here, especially on a hi-gain drive patch and with added drive and compression and frankly using a POD you will never hear the MTC do anything, because of the way the POD is designed, it doesn't change the signal pattern as the guitar volume drops, it stays the same only quieter. If you check over the wave forms you will see this. The POD is designed to be an "all in one box" solution, so it is designed to give the "whole" sound from the POD software. Even in "manual mode" the POD still shapes the sound completely, it can't not. This is why POD while good is not the same as a real valve amp. So I wonder how much of this sound has anything to do with the BSM either? I have a POD 2.0 PRO rackmounted version here and it has the same issues, great for what it does, but not great to test pedals or sounds. It's not an amplifier, it's a simulator which uses on-board wave forms to generate the sound, they guitar signal is converted to digital on the way in and back to analogue on the way out assuming you don't just use it as digital straight to the computer, even worse news if you do!! So overall it's impossible to judge tone/sound with the POD. I guess you made this clip for the playing rather than to anlyse the sound, but it's interesting to look at it!
The reason I asked about the guitar volume was in case you didn't realise that because of the way the MTC is wired it will be taken out of circuit when the guitar volume is at 10 anyway. A lot of Dawk-FanBoys have claimed they can heart the MTC when playing their guitar solos with the guitar at volume 10. They may mean that the capacitor in the MTC is audible, but that's it and that's nothing but a standard guitar cap anyway! The two extra wires on the MTC are just a simple capacitor, like the one the wiring instructions told you to remove. The other 2 wires, the white ones are to the "second circuit"!! It might be a treble bleed, but it definately doesn't make you sound fatter as the volume goes down, like Dawk says it does on Ritchie's guitar. Try and you'll see. Keep the tone controls fully up and reduce the volume, does it get thinner or fatter? Yeah it gets thinner! Incidentially if you wire the MTC the way Dawk recommends the device is ALWAYS on ALL the pickups, so any crap you read about it being only ion the neck is just that crap! Without the Volume control being across the 2 white wires of the MTC, then the "circuit" is removed from the guitar, so definatley it does nothing in that case. You can't just connect this to your jack socket, like I read some of the Dawk-FanBoy claim to have done, becuase if you do it will do absolutely 100% of nothing to your sound., becuase it's not in the circuit at that point. When people talk about the MTC being just on the neck pickup only, they mean the "2nd circuit", to you and me that's just a "capacitor" rather than a "circuit" and so basically just as you can connect the normal tone controls/capacitor in your guitar to any or both pickups, you can connect the tone "capacitor" in the MTC the same way. YOu really need to try taking a normal guitar and jsut turn the tone down to about 3 or 4 and you'll get the same effect that's claimed for the MTC. So in that sense the MTC works, becuase the capacitor works, but that's it and $325 for a capacitor is steep in most any terms. INcidentially I found the only time I got anything different from my MTC was when I tuned the tone down to 2, ie bass, but I could replicate the same sound on ANY of my guitars without the MTC, doing the same thing! Also if you watch Ritchie play he ALWAYS flicks all his controls between runs, it's like a nervous tick, he does it every time. So if the MTC is supposed to give it's wonderful sound with the tone backed off, how come our man BLackmore spends so much time turning the knos on his guitar UP and not DOWN. the answer is becuase, despite the claims he isn't using the MTC that we all bought from Dawk, or if he is then clearly it works in a different way from the claims for how best to use it!!
Sometime ago, as I'm sure you know, I made a clip using no amplifier or other effects, just a guitar which have an RBTC and an MTC hanging out of it and some switches so it was possible to disconnect both of them or either of them just by flicking the switches. I then made a clip which showed
1)Just guitar
2) MTC guitar
3) RBTC guitar
It's here RBTC/MTC comparision Clip
Mostly the Dawk-FanBoys claimed that the RBTC didn't work, despite the fact you could hear it very clearly, they also claimed there was a HUGE difference between 1 and 2, when in reality it's barely audible. Basically it was the usualy drivel that comes up about the RBTC/MTC. I used my own MTC for ages before I realised it was actually doing nothing that the ordinary guitar( without the MTC ) did. It was this that sparked the whole RBTC thing. I wanted that very fat creamy sound that the MTC was supposedly giving me and didn't. In you clip at 1:52 there is a lot goingn on and I don't beleive much of it has anything to do with the MTC, but of course perhaps it does. I understand fully why you want to attribute to the MTC, having done exactly the same myself, probably for the same reasons.
I wonder if it's possible for you to make a 3 way clip( or 3 clips ) without using ANY amps, so jsut your guitar right into the desk and recording gear, infact best if you can jsut in the recording gear, without using a POD or ANYTHING that will alter the signal at all and then record the same piece with just your guitar, then you guitar with MTC then if you can the same guitar with RBTC, tho jsut your guitar with and without would be interesting, as I already know the RBTC is easy to identify on it's own. YOU are regarded as more independent in such a test tham me, so it would be useful! Of course I will apologise in advance, because should you make this recording and the differences between the with MTC and without MTC are not really HUGE and very very audible then the Dawk-fanboys will call you a liar, and claim you didn't use the MTC and probably ban you from their forum. Anyway assuiming you accpet the challege the results would be very interesting. If I didn't already know better I'd have thought my own MTC was faulty and that was why I couldn't hear it, but I've had another 9 or 10 people with MTC's write to tell me they can't hear their's either and asking ifI could make it work!! Dawk wouldn't help them, wouldn't even give them, or me, a wiring diagram for a 2 pickup strat with a 3 way switch, jsut issues the 5 way 3 pickup version( like Ritchie ever used that....eh not! ) but a 2p/up 3way, was a no way from Dawk. That was pretty surprising I thought.
Just as an aside, neither Dawk, nor buddy Jerry, have never produced a singe soundclip for the MTC to let you hear what it does. Not a single clip.
The clips on Jerry's site come from a couple of source and I note they even still use 6 clips I sent Jerry way way back in the begining. So given that the MTC is going to change your sound "like night and day" how come there are no simple clips from the maker that demonstrate this? Jerry has lots of clips of his amps, so he has the ability to make them, but no MTC sound clips from the people who produce it. Maybe they know it's virtually impossible to hear any really difference so why bother to prodcue any clips, they feel it's better to tell you it's the same as BLackmores sound or that it's part of the Blackmroe sound, but it's best not to let you hear it, in case you realsie it's simply not. I think the term Dawk used when I spoke to him was "subtle" and he wasn't kidding, thought "in-audible" would be more accurate for sure. Incidentially the clips I recorded with the MTC which they still use also have an AKAI 1721L tape deck as pre-amp and an ENGL RBS head and ALL my guitars sound the same through that setup, with or without an MTC!! Now we're back to the beginning again!!
So if you can be bothered some clips with and without BUT with NO amps or PODS would be interesting to hear. Same goes for anyone else who has an MTC.
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31/8/2009, 17:52
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mijfenders
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
quote:
Stratman70 wrote:
quote:
KillerBananas wrote:
Well, you got them both (RBTC and MTC). What would you say, honestly, is the difference between them?
1) The main difference is that the RBTC affects the volume pot too much. The MTC doesn't do that. The sound with the MTC is getting brighter at lower volumes. With the RBTC it doesn't.
On the other hand: the RBTC seems to come closer to Ritchie's sound at lower volumes, which is why I like it so much. The sound is thicker and has more 'character' than the MTC.
But I can tell you better when I have my Mex. RB Strat equipped with the Gold Lace sensors and the RBTC and I can change them directly when playing and recording the same piece while keeping all other settings (on guitar and the rest) the same.
So I'd better come back to this later.
But for now: they are a bit different, but I like them both so far.
1) This may be becuase the RBTC is set too igh for the Seymour Pickups and if you back it off it wilhave less effect. Also it can be wried with a Push/Pull, indeed I'd recommend this as it allows you to easily and qucikly switch the RBTC off if you want to have a "thin" sound, maybe for rythmn playing or similar.
1) The fact that you hear th esound get brighter suggests that the 2 white wires in your MTC are basically a treble bleed circuit, so they keep the treble in the signal. That does not equate to the MT Cgiving you the "fat smooth" sound that Dawk claims Ritchie gets from it with his volume down. OUr research into the MTYC suggested that at best the white wires were jsut a treble bleed or at worst they did.....nothing. A treble bleed and a capacitor, hardly constitute "2 circuits" to most people and for $ 325 they are an amazing( as is exorbitantly high ) price!
Interested to hear you comparative results.
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31/8/2009, 18:02
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Stratman70
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
quote:
mijfenders wrote:
So if you can be bothered some clips with and without BUT with NO amps or PODS would be interesting to hear. Same goes for anyone else who has an MTC.
Hey mijfenders, thanks a lot for the info! I appreciate it very much!
As soon as I have the Lace sensors, I will install them into the mex RB strat, together with the RBTC. (I still have to order the Lace Sensors so it may take a while before I can post some clips. I will do as you said: I'll record direct with no POD or RPA into my soundcard and post the clips.
I posted the clips not only for the playing part, but also for the sound, as we guitarists always hunting for 'that' tone, that magic sound.
I think that the sound, as you can hear on the soundclips, are pretty convincing. I will never get this sound without using the RPA and only play through the POD. So dispite all the technical points of view, I'll let my ears judge, instead of wave forms or whatever. (no offence)
But I'll come back to this later, when I've prepared the RB strat.
But thanks again for your extensive info.
---
"I believe in God, Blackmore & Stratocasters" - Stratman70
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31/8/2009, 18:34
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mijfenders
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
quote:
Stratman70 wrote:
quote:
mijfenders wrote:
So if you can be bothered some clips with and without BUT with NO amps or PODS would be interesting to hear. Same goes for anyone else who has an MTC.
Hey mijfenders, thanks a lot for the info! I appreciate it very much!
As soon as I have the Lace sensors, I will install them into the mex RB strat, together with the RBTC. (I still have to order the Lace Sensors so it may take a while before I can post some clips. I will do as you said: I'll record direct with no POD or RPA into my soundcard and post the clips.
I posted the clips not only for the playing part, but also for the sound, as we guitarists always hunting for 'that' tone, that magic sound.
I think that the sound, as you can hear on the soundclips, are pretty convincing. I will never get this sound without using the RPA and only play through the POD. So dispite all the technical points of view, I'll let my ears judge, instead of wave forms or whatever. (no offence)
But I'll come back to this later, when I've prepared the RB strat.
But thanks again for your extensive info.
StratMan: Yeah that sounds good,I'll be interested to hear the "raw" clips. I thought your sound on this clip was good, I also listened to your RBTC test clip from a while back and I think the quiet parts sound very fat/smooth, just like Blackmore. That was what the MTC was claimed to give, but certainly for me it never did, hence the RBTC development. If people had accepted the RBTC for what it was, ie entirely different from the MTC, then most of the crap that the Dawk-FanBoy have caused would never have happened. They didn't and so this inspired further research into what the MTC actually does/is so if you want more info on that just pm me! It's not much, that's for sure.
Ok I'll really look forward to hearing the revised clips to se if you can get more from your MTC than I, or the others I mentioned managed from theirs. If you listen to the clip I produced you will hear that all the guitars sound quite weak, this is becuase I went straight into the sound card, and used no gain at all to increase the signal, if you can try the same, it gives a very realistic test. It's not about the playing on this one, just about the sound!
The quest continues!
PS if you have a chance try the MXR Bass Octave Deluxe Pedal, gives a pretty good Difficult to Cure style effect!
Last edited by mijfenders, 31/8/2009, 19:10
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31/8/2009, 19:09
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Rezi
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
Interesting stuff as always, guys!
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31/8/2009, 19:16
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KillerBananas
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
Interesting stuff indeed!
The reason I wanted the RBTC was that I wanted a fatter/ creamier sound at lower volumes, since turning down the volume with the original cap installed gave me a very thin and trebly sound (typical Fenderish). If the MTC gives a more trebly sound at lower volumes....well, then I'm glad I didn't buy it.
As mijfenders said, you have to adjust the RBTC to suit your pu's so it doesen't affect the volume control so much. Believe me, I've done a lot of adjusting before I found "my sound". Works like a dream, and both my Strat and Tele sounds amazing.
---
Marshall 1987X reissue
Marshall 1960AX cab
RBTB
Fender Stratocaster '72 reissue, CiJ, YellowWhite, "Full Blackmore Scallop", RBTC
Fender Telecaster Road Worn, Blonde, 2008, RBTC
Gibson Les Paul Faded, Honey Burst, 2008
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1/9/2009, 11:58
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stratobastard
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Re: Rainbow Eyes/Kill The King jam
dunno why you slag the mtc all the time mij when the rbtc is a copy of the said device.
im also amazed why you take the piss about the mtc's 2 circuits..which one of them is just a capacitor
when the rbtc has the same 2 circuits!!
ive got photos of a ungooped rbtc if anyone wants a look.
the rbtc is just a LCR circuit consisting of a choke/inductor, a resistor, and a capacitor.
oh and the other circuit is just a cap as said.
the mtc is massivly overpriced, the rbtc not so much. but then the torres or rothstein mid shapers are well cheap, albeit the cap values might need reducing.
"people who live in glass houses should not throw stones"
---
so what exactly does the 2nd circuit in the RBTC do then?
:)
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21/9/2009, 6:51
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