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sippi3
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mottle or grizzle.
Somebody get my mind straight. The Fehrholt birds have no pied in them.
Tiger grizzle is grizzle or pied?
Mottle is pied?
If mottle is pied then the tiger birds have to be grizzle?
Sippi
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sippi
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7/18/2008, 6:48 pm
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flatheadfisher
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Re: mottle or grizzle.
I don't know the answer but it sure sounds like a riddle!
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Michael
www.michaelayers.smugmug.com
flatheadfisher@triad.rr.com
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7/18/2008, 6:58 pm
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sharpshooters
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Re: mottle or grizzle.
There once was a Fehrholz from Nantucket...  I don't know either Sippi,they are great looking birds though. Gonna have to wait for Alan or Dennis to chime in on this one. Nick
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Nick Grzywacz
grzywacznkl@aol.com
"I hope he doesn't catch that black mottle.....AWH $%*%!!!!"
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7/18/2008, 7:22 pm
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Gaditano
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Re: mottle or grizzle.
No, there is no Pied in them.
Tiger Grizzle is neither Classical Grizzle nor Pied. Tiger Grizzle is another name for Mottle. That's different than both Pied and Classical Grizzle.
Pied is what you commonly see on Birminghams. It causes large clumps of white and lots of bull eyes and odd eyes when the white is on the head. The following markings are Pied in rollers: Badges, Balds, saddles, oddsides and so on. To my knowledge there is no Pied in OR's.
 
Typical Pied markings in Fireball Rollers
The difference between Classical Grizzle and Tiger Grizzle or Mottle is a little harder. Classical Grizzled birds will show a good number of feathers that have color and white on the same feather. Whereas Mottled birds have each individual feather that's either pure colored or pure white. Mottles most of the time will molt in more white from what they look like in the nest. Classical Grizzles usually don't change much from juvenile to adults. But most of the time Mottles will have grizzled feathers in the nest but lose them after the molt, when every individual feather is either colored or white.
Yellow Classical Grizzle Kelly birds. Notice how the color and the white are on individual feathers and causes a grizzling effect, like grizzled beard of a man.
 
Whereas with the Mottle it is not so. each feather is EITHER color or white, there are no grizzled feathers on an adult Mottle unless it has Grizzle and/or Undergrizzle in it as well.
I have not found any Classical Grizzle in the Fehrholz birds. But I have found Undergrizzle in them and of course Mottle.
Undergrizzle shows white streaking or grizzling in the flights and sometimes in the tail. most of the time you can't see it without spreading a wing. here's a photo of an Undergrizzle
Remember, you can see combos of any or all these factors on one Pigeon. You can have a Pied Grizzled Mottle. But not in OR's
My Kelly birds have Classical Grizzle in them but no Mottle.
--- Alan Bliven - Circus Lofts
Member of the National Pigeon Association, Flying Oriental Roller Society, Horseman Pouter Club of North America, Voorburg Shield Cropper Club and the Tucson Pigeon Club |
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7/18/2008, 10:51 pm
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sharpshooters
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Re: mottle or grizzle.
Alan, I have a picture of one of my Fehrholz cоcks from about 8 or 9 years ago. It was a black and white bird with white flights,rump,a few tail feathers and a beard.It wasn't bull eyed.I'll have my neighbor scan the pic so I can post it. Nick
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Nick Grzywacz
grzywacznkl@aol.com
"I hope he doesn't catch that black mottle.....AWH $%*%!!!!"
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7/19/2008, 7:08 am
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Socorro
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Re: mottle or grizzle.
I guess my beard would be called grizzled then.Hah grey and red self!!?? 
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Kelly Waugh
Rum:30 Lofts
Gabriola Island,B.C.,
Canada.
Ed FORS Newsletter
islanddoves@telus.net
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7/19/2008, 7:53 am
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sharpshooters
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Re: mottle or grizzle.
The bird had a pattern just like this,but it was black.http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc156/goshawkin/DSC_0267640x480.jpg
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Nick Grzywacz
grzywacznkl@aol.com
"I hope he doesn't catch that black mottle.....AWH $%*%!!!!"
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7/19/2008, 8:34 am
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sippi3
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Re: mottle or grizzle.
Kel that is flash grizzle. You get old in a flash.  I have a squeak that just came off that I will take a pic of its tail. I think it is undergrizzle or Flash grizzle I think. It has an odd marked tail.
sippi
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7/19/2008, 9:15 am
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Gaditano
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Re: mottle or grizzle.
Sometimes, Tiger grizzle will mimic Pied markings with white flights and markings. I had a Tiger Grizzle once I could have sworn was a Pied but it's been proven there is no Pied in the Fehrholz birds.
This is it's picture:
--- Alan Bliven - Circus Lofts
Member of the National Pigeon Association, Flying Oriental Roller Society, Horseman Pouter Club of North America, Voorburg Shield Cropper Club and the Tucson Pigeon Club |
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7/19/2008, 9:43 am
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sharpshooters
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Re: mottle or grizzle.
Alan,that's what I had,except he had less white on his chest and head.He had a beard and a white forehead.Man,I wish I still had some of my old birds  Nick
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Nick Grzywacz
grzywacznkl@aol.com
"I hope he doesn't catch that black mottle.....AWH $%*%!!!!"
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7/19/2008, 9:48 am
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