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Gaditano
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Re: Immune System
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
--- Alan Bliven - Circus Lofts
Member of the National Pigeon Association, Flying Oriental Roller Society, Horseman Pouter Club of North America, Voorburg Shield Cropper Club and the Tucson Pigeon Club |
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12/14/2008, 3:32 pm
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bpd506
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Re: Immune System
Alan, Thanks, I'm learning. Wayne
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12/14/2008, 3:51 pm
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Socorro
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Re: Immune System
Alan,
I'm curious why you would need to give probiotics twice a week.If a loft is not kept spotless clean,and we all know feed gets spilled and **** and dust gets in the water and they eat and drink it before it gets cleaned up as quick as you can keep on top of it,so they are picking up these good bacteria they need like in a deep litter loft.Why would anything more than garlic and ACV and possibly electrovites in the water be neccessary?By the way,I have in the past used all in one twice a year but the more I read about going the natural path,the more I'm leaning towards dropping the all in one from my management scheme.
Last edited by Socorro, 12/14/2008, 10:40 pm
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Kelly Waugh
Rum:30 Lofts
Gabriola Island,B.C.,
Canada.
Ed FORS Newsletter
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12/14/2008, 10:37 pm
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rapp
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Re: Immune System
Great issue to discuss. I have raced racers since the early 50s back then Cancer was the real problem but there was no medication program as the meds did not exist. Now is a different thing with the bird I only medicate during the race season as the birds do pickup things in the shipping crates. During the race season I will put them on four in one for the day they come home from the race and the day after every other week. I do use alot of vitamins and probiotics during the race season. two weeks before the breeding season I give the breeders a couple of days of four in one basically for worms and cancer. My FOR's and Parlors are on there own the strong servive the weak perish.
Last edited by rapp, 12/15/2008, 9:56 am
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Bob Rapp Penn Valley Ca.
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12/15/2008, 9:49 am
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Ed Mc
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Re: Immune System
Racing Homers are a good contrast in this discussion. I use the deep litter system now, except for kit boxes that have wire floors and medicate only when I feel it is absolutly required. But when I raced a medication schedule was a must. There is a saying "when one or two flyers are using something new it is a advantage, when everyone is using this medication it is a necesity." The best example I can think of is Malaria, "the twenty minute disease". When Adabrin (now controlled) was first used in the mid seventies it was highly guarded secret. I would never go to the trouble and expense to treat my backyard performing breeds for Malria.
Ed
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12/15/2008, 10:40 am
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Gaditano
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Re: Immune System
Kelly,
We just had a ton of articles on this topic in the newsletter. I am no vet, so I can't answer scientifically like he did. One answer might be that I keep all my waterers spotless, they don't get very dirty at all by keeping them above the floors and changing the water everyday. If you allow them to get dirty, bacterial infections can spread which are in every loft.
All I really know for sure is from experience that probiotics work. I wouldn't be without it! For me, it's the best preventive there is.
I remember years ago before I used probiotics. I was having a terrible time with paratyphoid/E coli/Salmonella infections. And I used ACV! I was very close to giving up pigeons altogether, it was so discouraging. I would give them antibiotics for the prescribed treatment and they would be OK for a week afterwards but then it would start again! Then I tried probiotics and it instantly stopped! When I would go off probiotics, it would start up again.
To this day, I alternate probiotics, ACV and Red Cell Vitamins in their water. Everyday they get a water change and a different supplement. It averages out to about twice per week for all three. But I make sure they get the probiotics at least twice per week. Sometimes more if I feel they are stressed. I will put all stressed lofts/birds on probiotics for a week or more. That especially includes new arrivals. If I have a death in a loft, I will also put that loft on probiotics for a week.
--- Alan Bliven - Circus Lofts
Member of the National Pigeon Association, Flying Oriental Roller Society, Horseman Pouter Club of North America, Voorburg Shield Cropper Club and the Tucson Pigeon Club |
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12/15/2008, 11:25 am
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sharpshooters
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Re: Immune System
quote:
Socorro wrote:
Alan,
I'm curious why you would need to give probiotics twice a week.If a loft is not kept spotless clean,and we all know feed gets spilled and **** and dust gets in the water and they eat and drink it before it gets cleaned up as quick as you can keep on top of it,so they are picking up these good bacteria they need like in a deep litter loft.Why would anything more than garlic and ACV and possibly electrovites in the water be neccessary?By the way,I have in the past used all in one twice a year but the more I read about going the natural path,the more I'm leaning towards dropping the all in one from my management scheme.
The idea with pro biotics is to keep the "bad" bacteria in check with "good" bacteria like lactobacillus acidophilus.Same bacteria you get from eating yogurt.I give my birds Primalac every day in their water,it's a live lactobacillus acidophilus mix.The easy way to look at it is if their intestinal tract is loaded with "good" bacteria there is less room for the "bad".I don't see how you get them getting good bacteria from dirty feed and water,I see e coli and salmoella.Works for me too,if I'm not feeling well I'll eat some yogurt but never once thought about chewin' on a terd.
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Nick Grzywacz
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"I hope he doesn't catch that black mottle.....AWH $%*%!!!!"
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12/15/2008, 3:32 pm
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flatheadfisher
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Re: Immune System
quote:
sharpshooters wrote: never once thought about chewin' on a terd.
Many people in your family probably appreciate that. You crack me up.
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Michael
www.michaelayers.smugmug.com
flatheadfisher@triad.rr.com
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12/15/2008, 3:39 pm
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rollerdoneks
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Re: Immune System
Its good to read that we agree on the fact that over medicating is not the answer. What Bob Rapp is doing with his Homers is the same I am doing. But in 2005, 2006 and 2007 when I had left over PMV and Pox vaccine I also gave my FORs and other birds the shots.
When I said dirty water containers, it was the jug and they get fresh water one to two times per day. I also would like to see our RP Combine have the members stop vaccinating for Pox like some other Combines have.
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Dennis L. Radi
Idar Lofts
rollerdoneks@skybeam.com
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12/15/2008, 3:51 pm
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bpd506
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 Re: Immune System
I find this forum great, nice to have a place for everyone to throw out their thoughts and ideas on all aspects of the pigeon sport. The one thing I've found is what works for me might not work for the next guy. And in keeping an open mind we can all learn a thing or two.
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12/15/2008, 4:12 pm
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