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Gaditano

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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

Carlyle Kelly also has a lot of trouble with Hawks. He told me just a few days ago he had to lock down because of the hawks constant harassment and they were even getting into his loft.

Whether or not his problems are due to the area his lives, flies and/or the strain he has, I can not say. His strain is his own, which is based on the German birds of George De La Nuez, mixed with Fehrholz and Husbands that he has culled over the years for performance.
I lock down for a month in the spring and fall due to migration of the Hawks. Though none get caught that I know of, it's just no fun every time I let them out watching them get scattered.

Something interesting has happened recently this year. I have some Harris Hawks take up residence in the neighbor's huge Eucalyptus tree. What interesting is I have only seen one Coopers Hawk since that time. I am hoping they will keep them away. Though the Harris Hawks will scatter the FORs, they are to big to catch them and maybe I can condition them to not even try and I'll be free of Coopers


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Alan Bliven - Circus Lofts

Member of the National Pigeon Association, Flying Oriental Roller Society, Horseman Pouter Club of North America, Voorburg Shield Cropper Club and the Tucson Pigeon Club
11/11/2008, 3:52 pm Send Email to Gaditano   Send PM to Gaditano
 
maxspin
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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

I have a bigger problem with peregrines here then coopers. I loose more Birmingham's when they sky out. They get picked off up there where I can't see what is going on very well. I fear the same would happen with the Fehrholz. The Husbands flying low should stand a better chance.
I do have some coopers, I have just enough open space that they have not been a huge problem.



Sure hope that I am right emoticon

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Keith Maxwell
11/11/2008, 7:26 pm Send Email to maxspin   Send PM to maxspin
 
sharpshooters
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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

I'm lucky,I've never been hit by falcons here. I guess you just have to pick the right strain for your conditions.

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Nick Grzywacz
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"I hope he doesn't catch that black mottle.....AWH $%*%!!!!"
11/11/2008, 7:47 pm Send Email to sharpshooters   Send PM to sharpshooters
 
sippi3

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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

Hey Kel healthy discussion is good. I like even spirited debate. The question is what kind is your friend flying. When I first got mine I got show culls. I dont think they had any crosses but they were definitely werent Husbands. Niether did they fair too well with the hawks. I will put my record up for this year since I have moved my loft into the "woods" in the back yard. Eighty to one hundred foot timber on all four sides.

I havent seen a single Oriental get caught by anything.

Coopers hawks no less than twenty attacks from ambush.

1 - Arabian Trumpeter(I chased the hawk and he lost the bird, bird lived trapped in my homer loft three days later)

3 - Galati's (saw two taken and one never returned)

1 - Fireball (hit but got away, survived)

5 - Galati's to an overfly of which I must assume some got eaten or actually probably all sooner or later.

4 - Fireballs to an overfly to a cooper

All these breeds are locked down now till migration ends.

Perigrine Falcon, only one attack this year. It struck from up high on my Husband kit and made repeated stoops.

1 - Charcoal Husband bird came back a day later with three secondaries and two tail feathers missing. The rest of the kit landed and trapped in after and hour of being harrassed. I actually thought the Charcoal was a goner.

Merlin Falcon, four seperate days of intermittent attacks. They came close to catching the Galati's but didnt actually catch one. They havent a prayer of catching a good Oriental but did hit a squeak on his first day out on the roof. He was a half White half black, out of a black hen that I have been flying since 06. She doesnt have a roll in her body but has faced every kind of BOP we have without a scratch. I used her to test my unproductive white cоck. Evidently he doesnt have any problems as I have two grizzle/splashed squeaks out of him and her.

Red Tails are a joke and dont even excite the Orientals.

Sharp shin havent caught anything in probably five or six attempts. I am not sure a male sharpshin can hold a grown Oriental unless they hit a vital spot. The squeak tore loose from the Merlin.

I also suspect I lost a squeak to a cooper that was out for its first day and wouldnt trap. I left four out and had to go load hay and one went missing.

I havent seen a grown Oriental get caught and killed since late 2003-4. I didnt keep records back that far. I have seen birds get hit and get away. And I have had more than one come in missing a lot of feathers. Can some get caught? absolutely. Will you loose many mature birds? Absolutely not, provided you arent flying show birds.

I will try to dig up some photos of what my Barred birds looked like ten years ago to represent a point. They have transformed into a much sleeker longer winged bird in the last eleven years.

So before you tell me they cant outfly BOP tell me what is your terrain and what family you are flying and at what age are you exposing them to BOP. You only have to have one of the three wrong to loose them all.

Remember a bird that came from somebody that knew somebody that heard of somebody that read Dale Husbands name once doesnt make it a Husband. emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon



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sippi
11/12/2008, 7:47 pm Send Email to sippi3   Send PM to sippi3
 
Socorro
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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

The guy is flying what started out as a mix and he has apparently bred them to what he wants to see I suppose.They were german imports from flyingstock is what I was told.Nice looking birds but that is all I can tell you other than he says all his birds are good performers.He is also quite adamant that with blacks the best ones have light coloured nails and beak.Is this something I've read here before or am I imagining things?Good chance it's the later.
   Good records Sippi and thanks for posting that.I've read here how well them birds fly and from the very little I've seen I'm already convinced they will do much better than my poor BRs.
   By the way the terrain here is good with low(20-100ft)trees spread out not far from the loft but gennerally open till the beach on one side and the forest about 200yards on the uphill side.My big problem here is the peris resident in the bluffs 1/2 mile behind our place.

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Kelly Waugh
Rum:30 Lofts
Gabriola Island,B.C.,
Canada.
Ed FORS Newsletter
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11/12/2008, 10:00 pm Send Email to Socorro   Send PM to Socorro Yahoo
 
Gaditano

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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

It's a matter of fact that the ONLY flying stock in Germany are the Fehrholz birds and there has only been one importation of those, and that was by Andy Estrada. The German OR flyer (Tortsen) was at my home and told me the same thing.

John Skistimas told me when he visited the OR lofts in Germany, he asked all the old timers if they knew of anyone flying their birds, and they said no one has flown in a countless number of years. The same is written on John's website. That shows the German imports will need a lot of work to restore performance. Of course these old times only move in show circles. They don't know Fehrholz or his friends who fly his birds. That don't mean the German show birds can't be worked with to get some good performers by heavy culling and crossing, I believe it can be done.

To state that birds with black beaks and colored nails are inferior performers is an irresponsible and uniformed statement. That's caused by the gene Verdunkel, and has nothing at all to do with ability. Their prejudices are because of personal preference of looks, by being influenced by the show standard of the UORA. It has nothing to do with performance. That's like saying Blue Bar Racers are inferior to Blue Checks.

The bottom line is, there's a lot of myths surrounding the OR and part of our job is, without prejustuice, to dispel these myths.

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Alan Bliven - Circus Lofts

Member of the National Pigeon Association, Flying Oriental Roller Society, Horseman Pouter Club of North America, Voorburg Shield Cropper Club and the Tucson Pigeon Club
11/13/2008, 12:27 pm Send Email to Gaditano   Send PM to Gaditano
 
Socorro
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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

I hear you Alan,and thanks for your post/info.

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Kelly Waugh
Rum:30 Lofts
Gabriola Island,B.C.,
Canada.
Ed FORS Newsletter
islanddoves@telus.net
11/13/2008, 12:52 pm Send Email to Socorro   Send PM to Socorro Yahoo
 
sippi3

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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

Got two Galati's back today so the list goes down some. emoticon The one that didnt return and one from an over fly. No hits from anything today. Did have a couple of accipiters come through the airspace but paid no mind.

Sippi

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sippi
11/13/2008, 5:26 pm Send Email to sippi3   Send PM to sippi3
 
Socorro
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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

None of mine are flying 'cept the Homers.The Henery are hungry.

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Kelly Waugh
Rum:30 Lofts
Gabriola Island,B.C.,
Canada.
Ed FORS Newsletter
islanddoves@telus.net
11/13/2008, 10:54 pm Send Email to Socorro   Send PM to Socorro Yahoo
 
sippi
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Re: FORs ability to outmanouver BOP,but are they ever caught?

I have had time off to think about and witness this as I moved one of my kit boxes(the twelve box) into the "kill zone". Migration has lasted longer this year than ever before and more attacks by more different breeds than ever before. I just started back flying my Fireballs and Galatis today. I tried a couple of times and paid for it. The trees are forty feet on one side, fifty yards on one, sixty yards on one, and twenty yards on one. One hundred year old hard woods.

I have been hit repeatedly by some type of hawk(looks like a falcon, not a merlin) as well as red tail, Merlin, coopers, sharp shin, perigrine, red shoulder, and some I didnt recognize.

For you Kel, I had a half black half white squeak hit in mid air as they took off by a Merlin and it rode him to the ground where they tussled and it got away. The same Merlin also caught an Arabian Trumpeter in mid flight like it was nothing. The Merlin are pesky as they will line out and chase a bird till he looses it and then chase another breaking the kits up.

At the risk of really causing a controversy I have found Perigrine the easiest to dodge since my first encounter which I have written about that I wasnt sure if I wanted to have another. The ones that hit from up high will hardly ever, if at all, catch a mature Oriental, as they seem to dodge out of the way at the last second.

After this two month migration emoticon emoticon I would have to rank the cooper as number one adversary, the Merlin number two, what ever that one was as number three, the perigrine number four and all the rest as no contest.

I did have a juvenile eagle attack my mobile box a couple of days ago. He must have been really starving as he wasnt afraid of me at all. He let me get within ten feet of him and just sat in the sapling and watched me.

I will add to my list the losses in the last week, all to overflies from falcon attacks or that other bird? that was hitting me.

I have lost two Kellys, and the Buff Husband mentioned in another thread that I think rolled down. Both Kellys just went a miss after an unsuccessful attack by a BOP up high leading me to believe overfly.

Sippi

11/29/2008, 7:05 pm Send Email to sippi   Send PM to sippi
 


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