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Highlander1
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Re: Samir birds.
Many of my birds have been flown year round where I live in Michigan. They get chased all the time by hawks and live. Every so often one gets killed. I know for an absolute fact not all strains and families of Orientals are the same in regards to their anti hawk evading skills. I want it all in a performing Oriental. Flying and performing abilities and Hawk evasion. For me Hawk evasion is important. You raise the bird, feed it, then it takes many months for it to develop into a good performer.Why go through all this if the family of birds are whimps at outflying hawks??? If someone tells me they cannot outfly hawks then they either do not know how to train them or they have a family that is not capable of this ability...Bruce.
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7/22/2009, 7:49 pm
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rapp
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Location: penn valley ca
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Re: Samir birds.
Amir Bruce and I are big boys and we understand that this is just a good debate amongst friends.
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Bob Rapp Penn Valley Ca.
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7/22/2009, 7:51 pm
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rapp
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Re: Samir birds.
There are at least three of us on this list that both fly for's and race racing homers so we may have a different view point from the others that don't have any other birds then airial acrobatic breeds in the air so bare with us if we may think a little different as we fly two different types of birds every day weather permitting.
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Bob Rapp Penn Valley Ca.
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7/22/2009, 8:05 pm
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Highlander1
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Re: Samir birds.
I'll ad one more tidbit of info here before bed time...Alan right now has 9 real nice Husbands on his website for sale. If I was in need of starting over with this family I would be buying them all without hesitation as they have the same exact look as the ones in my loft now I got from him. Would all of them outfly hawks. Probably not. Instead I would breed from them then fly their babies to the extreme. Only breeding from the survivors year after year. This is the only way you will develope and maintain a family of birds that out fly hawks on a consistent basis. I beleive the Fehrholz's have this ability also. But not all of them..In fact Im looking to get more Fehrholz's in the future from Alan...And if hawk evasion is not an issue to anyone then breed what ever type of Oriental you want...I'm cool with that....Wife's calling gotta go..grin...
Bruce.
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7/22/2009, 8:11 pm
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Socorro
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Location: Gabriola Island,B.C.,Canada.
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Re: Samir birds.
Let the truth be spoken about our beautiful birds.I fly my BRs,Donek AND my ORs almost everyday.My white racers fly every day of the year as long as I'm home to kick them out.Here is my the henery rapp sheet for 2009
Racers-haven't lost a single bird this year.
Birmingham Rollers-lost 5 to the Henery since january.
Orientals-2 lost to the henery,4 to an overfly when I retreived one bird from 40 miles and 5 islands south of my place.
Donek-One lost to the Henery
Sure,ORs are good hawk/falcon evaders but like any breed of pigeon,some WILL be caught,no doubt.If a person gets into raising and flying Oriental Rollers thinking none will be caught by BOP,that person is fooling themselves.I haven't seen any mature experienced ORs from my lofts get caught by the BOP YET,but I don't beleive they CAN'T be caught.
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Kelly Waugh
Rum:30 Lofts
Gabriola Island,B.C.,
Canada.
Ed FORS Newsletter
islanddoves@telus.net
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7/23/2009, 7:21 am
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Alan Bliven
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Re: Samir birds.
First of all it needs to be established that NO strain of FOR won't have some birds caught every once in a while. If anyone has that impression, it's a wrong one. But I don't know how any adult with a sane mind can actually believe that. If they got into FOR's because they believed non would ever get caught by Hawks they don't even have a sound mind and maybe they shouldn't be allowed in society till they either reach the age of 12 or are treated by a psychiatrist.
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7/23/2009, 7:39 am
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Alan Bliven
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Re: Samir birds.
Secondly, training/handling, location and the strain you have has a lot to do with what kind of success you have against the Hawks. I could go into detail but that's better left for a newsletter article. But here it is in a nut-shell:
Training/handling: If you use poor judgment while training/handling your birds, they will get slaughtered more quickly than someone who uses wise training/handling methods.
Location: If you have trouble with Coopers Hawks, training them under a large bunch of trees is very high risk. Coopers are ambush predators and sit in the trees and wait. That's why some people that live in such areas fly and train them with portable kit boxes.
Strain: It's fact that people seem to have a hard time grasping that most of these strains are much different in evasion abilities. I guess because they are thinking in terms of Homers and Rollers, where one strain isn't any better than the other at evasion. There is so much diversity between the strains of OR's that they would be better described as separate breeds. That means when all else is equal, the abilities of some strains at evasion are better than others.
I am not here to judge which are better than the others. If you really need to know, test them against the other strains in the same location, the same time of year, with the same training/handling techniques and judge for yourself.
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7/23/2009, 8:00 am
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Alan Bliven
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Re: Samir birds.
quote:
rapp wrote:
Amir I believe that Bruce question was not out of line if you go back to earlier posts you will find that some of the flyers would go out with their portable lofts and look for BOP'S and when they found one they would turn their birds out to fly against the BOP'S purposely. I would think that they were more interested in the hawk evasion skills then the performance. I maybe wrong on this point I am looking for other points of few.
My point of view is that you can breed for both performance ability and hawk evasion ability. What sets them apart from other breeds is their unique performance, their evasion abilities, and their beauty and style on the ground. In order to keep the tradition of the breed alive today, our birds should be all of these.
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7/23/2009, 8:06 am
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amir68
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Re: Samir birds.
Alan I have all of that in my birds(flying , rolling and other qualities of Real OR-s ,all collors that real OR-s have to have )but and the only thing I am trying to say is that to spread even the idea about evading hawks is wrong.That is all.None lost so far this year and I have had 50 birds flying and train before they go to the fanciers(I train my birds for some people who wants to by them ,until they start to roll)and still have about 30 flying right now every day.And I never tell to enybody about they evade hawks. It would be wrong.Why , you know your self that all pople are not the same and do believe in something that somebody tell them.Manny loose Birmingham rollers a loot to BOP and trying to find something that will not get cought easy .And what than?First loss to hawk and there you go.Hey!!! you told me they outfly hawks why did hawk catch my .Probablly familiar sentence for some that sell pigeons with that extra(outfly) word next to Oriental roller.That is all I am saying.
Amir.
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7/23/2009, 12:42 pm
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Alan Bliven
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Re: Samir birds.
I understand what you are saying and I have never told anyone that got birds from me that they will all evade Hawks. I tell them that on a whole the breed is better at evading Hawks than most other breeds of Pigeons. If I told them otherwise, I would be lying.
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7/23/2009, 1:42 pm
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