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Dannzzigg
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Shock Trooper War/Ele
Class: Warrior / Elementalist
Assumed items:
+2 to Strength (minor rune + helmet)
+1 to Axe Mastery
Zealous Chaos Axe of Fortitude
+1 energy per hit, -1 energy regen
+20 health
Shocking Axe
Droknar's Forge Plate Mail set
Attributes: (cost)
Strength: 10+2 (61)
Axe Mastery: 10+1 (61)
Air Magic: 11 (77)
Total attribute points used: 199/200
Skills:
1) Conjure Lightning- (10,1,60) Lose all enchantments. For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a lightning weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 12 lightning damage.
2) Flurry - (5,0,5) For 5 seconds, your attack rate is increased, but you deal less damage.
3) Executioner's Strike - (8a,0,0) If this attack hits, you strike for +32 damage.
4) Penetrating Blow - (5a,0,0) This axe attack has 50% armor penetration.
5) Disrupting Chop - (6a,0,0) If it hits, this attack interrupts the target's current action. If that action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.
6) Sprint - (5,0,20) For 13 seconds, you move 25% faster.
7) Glimmering Mark (elite) - (10,2,15) For 12 seconds, whenever target foe suffers lightning damage, that foe and all adjacent foes suffer from blindness for 3 seconds. This is an elite skill.
8) Shock - (5,3/4,10) Target touched foe is struck for 47 lightning damage and is knocked down. This spell has 25% armor penetration. This spell causes exhaustion.
This build is designed for PvP. It's designed to be a flexible, damage-centric build.
By using a Shocking Axe (need to find the grip first) combined with Conjure Lightning, the damage dealing ability is obviously buffed. Add Glimmering Mark to the equation, and the foe and all nearby foes are blinded as well. I figure this would come in especially handy in a defensive role, such as protecting the Ghostly Hero or our healers from melee.
Executioner's Strike and Penetrating Blow are the standard axe damage dealing skills. They can put out significant damage, even to heavily armored foes. Combine them with the inherent armor penetration of lightning damage, and 12 pts (more if I can get a major or superior rune) in Strength, and I will be cutting through softer targets like butter.
Disrupting Chop is another standard in any of my Axe builds now, as it's ability to stop an opponent from using a skill for 20 seconds is invaluable. It should be noted that this is, to my knowledge, the only skill capable of interrupting any action regardless of type, including signets. A well timed Disrupting Chop can spell the end for many an opponent.
Shock is added to the build for the knockdown ability it provides. The exhaustion worries me a bit, especially for a Warrior prime, but I believe that with judicious use of 5 energy skills (sprint, flurry) I might be able to get away with it. If I find it to be a problem, there is always the direct damage skill Lightning Strike (5,1,5- Strike target foe for 38 lightning damage. This spell has 25% armor penetration.) It sacrifices the knockdown, but still packs quite a punch.
I do, however have some concerns about this build, and I could use some input and advice.
Exhaustion is a big one. If the info I have is still valid, My energy pool will be effectively halved for the duration, with a slow recovery. Switching to my Zealous Axe may allow me to regen faster, but it will also remove the Lightning damage.
Also, I wonder if a stance breaker, like Wild Blow may have a place in this build. (Wild Blow 5,0,5 - Lose all adrenaline. If it hits, this attack will be a critical hit. If Wild Blow hits any stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be blocked or evaded.) A foe in a defensive stance can avoid much of my damage output, so it would be nice to have something to knock him out of one. But what would I pull to insert it?
The real question, I suppose, Is this: "Am I trying to do too much with one build?"
What do you think????
--- Check out Dylan's Den!
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5/30/2005, 5:26 pm
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Greentongue
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Re: Shock Trooper War/Ele
Personally I would drop Shock for Protector's Strike or Bull's Strike (if you really want the knockdown.)
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5/31/2005, 6:58 am
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Dannzzigg
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Re: Shock Trooper War/Ele
I don't like that those two skills are conditional. That means at many times, they will simply be unusable.
As an after thought regarding exhaustion, after testing it out a bit last night while using the Earth skill, Obsidian Flame, I found exhaustion to be not much of a problem.
The recovery rate from exhaustion is equal to my typical energy regen rate of 1 pip, so I rarely find my regen 'bumping' against the lower cap. I can see where an Ele prime would have serious issue with it, but I hardly noticed at all.
--- Check out Dylan's Den!
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5/31/2005, 9:27 pm
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Greentongue
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Re: Shock Trooper War/Ele
quote:
Dannzzigg wrote:
I don't like that those two skills are conditional. That means at many times, they will simply be unusable.
It is not true that they are "unusable".
As a warrior with Strength, Any skill used has armor penetration. While you don't get a "bonus", you do get extra damage just from using a skill.
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6/1/2005, 7:32 am
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Pyxis
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Re: Shock Trooper War/Ele
I like the build as is. I do not believe your Lightning Melee attacks get an AP bonus for being lightning. I haven't read anything about those attacks since before they required specific hilts, so maybe that has changed, but I know during the BWEs a Lightning Melee attack did not get the AP bonus, just as a Holy Melee attack did not ignore armor.
Shock is great cause it always knocks down. GT has a good point about all Warrior skills getting the AP bonus though, that is worth considering. I think if you have Glimmer up though, shock would be the best choice. Don't want to spam it, but you really shouldn't need to, just there to fill in when your target isn't blinded.
The only thing is that Glimmer really should be carried by someone else. You are never going to have this build work effectively when you have to cast a spell with a 2s cast time. It is going to be the same problem you run into with Judge's Incite, that 2s cast just starts to wear on you, bad things happen during it, and then you start thinking is this build even worth running.
Now have a Light Ele bring it and you are in business, also opens that slot up for Wild Blow, which in my opinion should always be brought by 1 melee fighter in any PVP group.
Like to see this run with a couple Wa/Mo builds, solid front line with good Damage and Raise ability. Might even be able to go with only 1 Wa/Mo if we can cover enough Raising duties through the backline, but that could get tricky.
Also, I would put more points in Axe than strength. Try different setups and see what you like. I try to get my weapon stats as high as possible so every attack does good damage. points in strength help your attack skills, points in axe help every attack.
Last edited by Pyxis, 6/1/2005, 10:29 am
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6/1/2005, 10:25 am
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Dannzzigg
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Re: Shock Trooper War/Ele
I hadn't considered the idea of more points in Axe then Strength. I'll have to move them around and see what happens. Right now, I actually have the same number of attribute points in them, but I have two +1 modifiers to Str (helm and minor rune). Frankly, I'd love to run with Major or Superior runes for both of them, assuming I can find a Superior Vigor to go along with it, and maybe a +40 health shield.
I got my shocking axe haft this morning, for 100gp, so I'll be able to check out the additional damage and see how it all comes together.
--- Check out Dylan's Den!
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6/2/2005, 7:08 am
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Valykar
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Re: Shock Trooper War/Ele
First:
on skills. I think that shock is a good choice for an wa/el as it does nice damage and knocks down. (ask Gard for his take though, as Stella runs it.) You might also try to free up room for Whirlwind (WW). WW is a nice PBAoE spell, that gives a bonus to knockdown any attacking foe. Since the backliners tend to group up, WW might be able to hit several of them at once. (Again, Gard is the expert)
I agree that dropping Glimmering Mark is a wise move. In pvp you are going to first be charging the backline. You are not going to be after the people that blindness effects. By the time that you are concerned with the Warriors/Rangers our team is on mop up. Your Elite will most likely be better served.
Lastly (on skills), I have determined what the listed damage converts into with the 25% AP for all armor levels. I can post that data if you are intrested. It it particularly intresting to see how the AP tacks on the damage to armor level 60-85. Let me know if this would be helpful to post.
Second:
You should get Axe (or ANY weapon stat) to 12. There is a link at guru I will try to find later, that shows the PERCENTAGE of listed damage that you CAN do, at any given attribute level. At anything less than 12, you are not even capable of doing listed damage. At 12, you do excatly listed damage, and anything over 12 is a diminishing return. Therefore, for the gain achieved, you (IMO) target for excatly 12 in any weapon attribute.
The follow information is taken from Ensign's "Game Mechanics" at Guru:
quote:
"Effect of Attributes on Weapon Damage Attribute
Level Percent of
Weapon Damage
0 35.6%
1 38.6%
2 42.0%
3 45.9%
4 50.0%
5 54.5%
6 59.5%
7 64.8%
8 70.7%
9 77.1%
10 84.1%
11 91.7%
12 100%
13 104%
14 107%
15 111%
16 115%
As an example, if you had a normal, customized (20% more damage) 15-22 damage Dragon Sword, and a level 9 Swordsmanship attribute, each swing with the weapon would deal:
15 × 1.20 × 2(( 5 × 9 - 60 ) / 40) = 13.88 minimum damage
22 × 1.20 × 2(( 5 × 9 - 60 ) / 40) = 20.36 maximum damage
While swinging the same sword with a level 12 attribute would deal:
15 × 1.20 × 2(( 5 × 12 - 60 ) / 40) = 18.0 minimum damage
22 × 1.20 × 2(( 5 × 12 - 60 ) / 40) = 26.4 maximum damage
While pumping up your weapon attribute continues to give outstanding, exponential returns on damage all the way to level 12, it drops off quickly after that. Attribute level 13 is less than half as effective as the previous level at raising your damage, and attribute level 14 is even worse. So while having a level 13 or 14 attribute might look good on your stat screen, it isn't doing a whole lot in game. You'd be better served lowering that attribute and investing elsewhere.
Last edited by Valykar, 6/2/2005, 11:11 am
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Valykar...the artist formerly known as Dayala.
"Loki, was Wisconsin really that bad?"
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6/2/2005, 10:40 am
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Pyxis
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Re: Shock Trooper War/Ele
Well maybe get Air up to 12 if possible then. It still looks like a better deal for the Axe bonuses over the 1%AP on skills that Strength gives you. Also have to consider the bonuses to Axe skills, I don't think those were considered in those equations. (Dan is only using Executioner's Strike that benefits from this, so for this particular build not much to consider)
Based on the Skills you are bringing on this build, Axe looks like the best place to dump your extra points. I think over time, the extra Damage you get off the points in Axe will add up to more than putting an extra point in Air for when you cast shock.
Really if you want to attack it from a math angle you have to show which gives the best results, points in Strength, Air, or Axe. You may have diminishing returns over 12 with Axe, but that doesn't matter if it is still a better investment than putting points in Strength or Air. I'd still pump points in Axe for this build, unless someone can show me the build being more effective with points in the other attributes.
Good post by Ensign though, I hadn't ever read it, kinda stopped reading forums after release  Definitely didn't know that breakdown. I hope they continue to change this stuff up on occassion, otherwise you end up with everyone playing the same characters because they are the "best" choice.
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6/2/2005, 1:26 pm
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Valykar
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Re: Shock Trooper War/Ele
Well, as is my understanding, every swing that Dan uses on his axe will be modified by his Axe attribute. So, Executaive Strike is not the only thing Axe modifies. Any normal attack, or flurry, or chop will be affected. Basically, the points in Axe changes the listed damage of an item. At 12, the item is truly listed. At 11, it is only 91.7% of the listed value. At 13 it is 104% of the listed value.
In my opinion, the jump from 12 to 13 is not justified for the points spent. Those points could be better used in other areas.
I don't think that he would be able to get Air up to 12, and really, I don't think he should. He needs to find what level will give his conjure +10, +11, or +12... whatever he wants.
Now- that being said, know that I am not arguing your point of points into Axe over Air or Str. Having never played a warrior, I can only attack this problem from an Ele and math angle. If STR offers +1 point of AP per point, and that is all, I would agree. Basically, he would need to figure out if 1-3 more points of AP does more damage boost than 4% of his listed value.
I am more than happy to figure all this out, but I want to know people want to know the numbers. Otherwise, it is not worth me figuring out.
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"Loki, was Wisconsin really that bad?"
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6/2/2005, 2:58 pm
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Pyxis
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Re: Shock Trooper War/Ele
quote:
In my opinion, the jump from 12 to 13 is not justified for the points spent. Those points could be better used in other areas.
I am just saying you have to show these other areas based on this specific build where the points would be better used. Ensign makes lots of broad sweeping statements like that. He is definitely 10x smarter than me, and I know you are too, but when you get to real game play, and specific builds, sometimes these poor point decisions are the best options available. I am sure Ensign would take Dan's build and rework the skills and points to be the best possible damage output. I don't know if Dan would want to play that build, or have fun with it though, and I don't know how well it would work in a Team Environment. The whole idea of creating builds from a single player perspective is flawed for PVP IMO. We don't fight as single players, we fight as a team, and the team that works best together, and has their 64 combined skills compliment each other the best will ultimately have the biggest advantage.
Also if you look at a lot of Ensigns stuff, he is usually argueing for an extra Pip, extra point of energy, or extra point of damage. Nothing earth shaking as far as the differences in output. Granted the Jump from 11-12 for 8% increase in damage is huge, and that is great information to know, but there are still plenty of builds that might have a more defensive goal where that loss in damage is acceptable. There are a lot of other variables that can't be calculated that deal with how people play, how fast their response time is to certain situation, and generally what builds they are comfortable playing. I personally like to read all of Ensigns stuff, but would rather make my own builds, play what I am comfortable with and what works best for me. Sure if I am an Elite player who can really take advantage of every bonus, then there is a specific build that I should be playing. But if I am a bit laggy, or have slow reflexes due to old age and too much drinking, I might want to play it safe and go with a more defensive build that can make up for my own weaknesses a bit better.
So for me more points in Axe work, and as I originally said, play around with it and see what works for you. Thats always the best way to tell. Knowledge is power though and all this math stuff comes in handy for getting a general idea of how your builds should look to get the most out of them. I am a mediocre player at best though and sometimes need my crutches with me to be competitive.
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6/2/2005, 4:22 pm
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