Syragar
Guild Member
Global user
Registered: 08-2005
Posts: 301
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Tanking dervish
Because the dervish is a melee character, I've been trying to find a build that gives the derv strong survivability but also able to dish out a good amount of damage. The build I used in GvG last Saturday is my attempt at using a build that has been successful for me in PvE. The result was actually very surprising. It seemed to work pretty well. I also tried it in randoms and hero battles and have been very pleased with its success so far. I still think it needs some tweaking, though. Here is my build...
VoS derv tank
You want a full set of Windwalker insignias on your armor because you'll rarely be running less than three enchantments. This will give you a +15 bonus to armor. For runes, I used superior scythe mastery, minor earth prayers, and minor mysticism. For the scythe, I recommend a sundering scythe of enchanting with a "guided by fate" insignia. This will make enchantments last 20% longer, give you 20/20 sundering, and +15% damage while enchanted.
The first four skills are for tanking, the next three for damage, then a rez.
DEFENSE:
The interventions are good for two reasons. First, they provide a safety net if you start taking too much damage (you can also put watchful on a monk when you have the time/energy). Second, they are long lasting enchantments. Faithful doesn't end unless you go below 50%... Watchful lasts up to a minute (or more if you have the scythe upgrade). These give you two long lasting enchantments for your Windwalker armor bonus and your regen for Mystic Regeneration.
Mystic Regen is one hekuva powerful regen skill! With this build, you get +3 regen for each enchantment on you. I had so many enchantments running I was sitting at +9 regen even though I had poison and/or other degens on me. I could also walk through the lava in the guild hall and still have +9 regen. When I would take damage, it would heal right back up. This skill is a must if you intend to do some tanking. Also, this skill counts itself as an enchantment. So this skill with the two interventions gives you a +9 regen alone. Your other enchantments will ensure you keep a healthy regen no matter how much degen they try to put on you. Enchantments from other classes work as well. I had a monk throw some enchantments on me and I saw my regen go up. Very handy!
Conviction gives you a nice amount of armor. I just wish this skill was an enchantment instead of a stance so it would count for mystic regen. You get +24 armor while enchanted, or +3 regen while you're not enchanted. I got this for the +24 armor bonus, but you still get a nice regen in case someone strips all of your enchantments away. This skill combined with Windwalker armor at full effect will give you 109 armor (70 base + 15 windwalker + 24 conviction). That mixed with a +9 regen makes you a very tough person to take down.
OFFENSE:
The offensive skills are where I think this build could use the most tweaking.
Heart of Fury is one of my favorites. It's like Frenzy without the bad side effects. In fact, it gives you a nice bonus. It sets all nearby foes on fire for a short while when it ends.
Heart of Holy flame is in there mostly just so I can do holy damage. The PBAoEs at the beginning and end of the enchantment are a nice little bonus.
Vow of Strength gives you a nice little damage bonus. I use this skill because I want to be enchantment heavy. This is a way to beef up my damage output without using attack skills (which you can't use with VoS anyway). The more attack skills I have on my bar, the fewer enchantments I have. The fewer enchantments I have, the less effective my armor and mystic regen will be... also, fewer enchantments mean that I'm more likely to be in trouble if someone is stripping single enchantments off of me.
CONCLUSION:
The idea of this build is to run as many enchantments as possible, then just go out in the fray and whack at your enemies... preferably if they are bunched together as you can hit multiple targets in one swing of the scythe. You should be able to keep so many enchantments running that a player with single enchantment removal isn't going to scare you. It's the ones with multiple enchantment removals that will really hurt you. And even if they pull that off, you get a good amount of energy back for your mysticism... so you can start putting them back on very quickly.
If you need more tanking, you could go for Avatar of Balthazar instead of VoS. That would give you an additional 40 armor, raising your armor to 149. You would also get a run speed boost and holy damage... so you could also replace Heart of Holy Flame with something else. If you need protection from conditions, put in Avatar of Melandru. I've been considering Avatar of Lyssa (a skill that is often ignored) simply because the damage bonus against anyone using skills is very impressive. It rips the demons in the Realm of Torment to shreds! Especially when they start using Call to the Torment.
Anyway. I'd love to hear any questions, comments, complaints, flames, etc.
EDIT:
Removed the part about the Avatar of Dwayna against hexes. I don't know what I was thinking. You need attack skills to use that effectively and there are none in this build.
Last edited by Syragar, 3/30/2007, 1:12 am
--- 
Dalana Darklight - N/Mo
Terra Windfury - D/E
Yoko Nakagama - W/A
Shyreena Saelana - Rt/R
Shyra Arcana - E/Me |
|
3/29/2007, 3:06 am
|
Send Email to Syragar
Send PM to Syragar
|
DamonIsa
Guild Member
Global user
Registered: 08-2005
Posts: 1266
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Tanking dervish
Seems more or less similar to what I was running into with the Madness Titans today. Which frustrated me just because guild wars doesn't have Formation options, so the henchies and heroes would get chewed up.
Since I saw it was such an effective tanking skill I'd suggest maybe seeing if you could find room for "Mirage Cloak" in there. Another long lasting enchantment that gives you a 50% block rate. Good for tanking. 
... Hmm, if someone is a regular on the official forums could they start bugging Guild Wars for a "Formation" option? Something like the henchie flags up on the radar. So rather than "Tight AoE sucker ball" like they usually do they might march in columns, lines, staggered lines, etc? I think that would be a really neat upgrade.
---
Niva Reikan: Warrior/Monk, Kurzick Champion
Arcturus Highwind: Paragon/Ranger
Pet: ROUS
Walker Tam: Warrior, Defender of Ascalon in Training
Nikolia Vasburg: Ritualist/Necromancer
|
|
3/29/2007, 3:26 am
|
Send Email to DamonIsa
Send PM to DamonIsa
|
Syragar
Guild Member
Global user
Registered: 08-2005
Posts: 301
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Tanking dervish
I agree. There needs to be some way to stagger your heroes/henchman as they tend to bunch up and become AoE fodder.
Believe it or not, I used to have Mirage Cloak in that build. I had it in there before I had Conviction. MC is a very good skill, but I took it out because it is too energy draining. It's actually not that long lasting... it's only 10 seconds (12 with scythe of enchanting). Sure, there is absolutely no cool down, so you can always cast it when it goes away. However, it costs 15 energy... using up 15 energy every 10 seconds for one enchantment hurt my build. So instead of 50% block I just looked for other tanking skills that weren't so energy costly.
If you can find ways to give yourself more energy, Mirage Cloak would be an AWESOME addition to the build. I was thinking something like Zealous Renewal, but you only get energy at the end of the enchantment. It also costs 10 energy, so you have to make 10 successful hits in 20 seconds just to get your energy back. Any successful hits after 10 would be one extra energy. I just don't think that would be effective enough. Hmm... maybe you could sub ele and take Glyph of Lesser Energy. It's no attribute, so it wouldn't force you to adjust your point spread. It would, however, require you to take an extra skill out of your build.
Last edited by Syragar, 3/29/2007, 12:52 pm
---
Dalana Darklight - N/Mo
Terra Windfury - D/E
Yoko Nakagama - W/A
Shyreena Saelana - Rt/R
Shyra Arcana - E/Me |
|
3/29/2007, 12:03 pm
|
Send Email to Syragar
Send PM to Syragar
|
Syragar
Guild Member
Global user
Registered: 08-2005
Posts: 301
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Tanking dervish
I forgot to mention that in the first run I took Sand Shards instead of Heart of Holy Flame in case I was blinded. Its an enchantment that damages all nearby foes every time you swing and miss. It doesn't do a whole lot of damage, but if you're surrounded (which is very common for a dervish) you'll actually deal a decent total amount of damage if you add it up. It's a way to make yourself useful even if you are blinded or hexed with anything that makes you miss a lot. I haven't decided if it is worth it though.
I've been wondering if you can get certain attack skill effects to trigger with the PBAoE of Sand Shards. Take Ebon Dust Aura for example. If I were to have Ebon Dust Aura and Sand Shards running, and I use and attack skill with an ebon scythe and miss, would it blind everyone that took damage? That's something I've been wondering about and would like to test. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a way to force yourself to go blind or miss that doesn't use an elite (Ebon Dust Aura is also an elite, so that means no Signet of Midnight). If this trick were to work, you could have a derv designated as a PBAoE blinder. Combine that with the tanking skills and you would have a blinder that would be really hard to take down.
---
Dalana Darklight - N/Mo
Terra Windfury - D/E
Yoko Nakagama - W/A
Shyreena Saelana - Rt/R
Shyra Arcana - E/Me |
|
3/29/2007, 4:59 pm
|
Send Email to Syragar
Send PM to Syragar
|
Dannzzigg
Founder
Global user
Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 2686
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Tanking dervish
I don't think you're Ebon/Shards idea would work, at least based on the skill descriptions.
Ebon Dust Aura says "your attack skills also cause blindness" and Shards causes nearby foes to "take damage". Also, Sand Shards is not an attack skill- it is a spell.
I'm not much of a number cruncher but... When I first glanced at the build, my immediate thought was that there was no way this build was going to put out much damage- or at least not enough for a PvP enviroment. But now that I am looking at the combination of 33% IAS and 32% increased damage, I'm wondering.
Have you tested this vs any of the dummies or live targets on the Isle of the Nameless? I'd be curious to see if you can take down the Master of Healing and if so, how long it takes.
--- Check out Dylan's Den!
 |
|
3/29/2007, 5:39 pm
|
Send Email to Dannzzigg
Send PM to Dannzzigg
MSN
|
DamonIsa
Guild Member
Global user
Registered: 08-2005
Posts: 1266
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Tanking dervish
Well, it's a "Tanking" dervish. You really can't tank in PvP anyway.
Other than in AvA stuff.
---
Niva Reikan: Warrior/Monk, Kurzick Champion
Arcturus Highwind: Paragon/Ranger
Pet: ROUS
Walker Tam: Warrior, Defender of Ascalon in Training
Nikolia Vasburg: Ritualist/Necromancer
|
|
3/29/2007, 8:45 pm
|
Send Email to DamonIsa
Send PM to DamonIsa
|
Dannzzigg
Founder
Global user
Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 2686
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Tanking dervish
quote:
DamonIsawrote:
Well, it's a "Tanking" dervish. You really can't tank in PvP anyway.
Other than in AvA stuff.
quote:
Syragar wrote:
Because the dervish is a melee character, I've been trying to find a build that gives the derv strong survivability but also able to dish out a good amount of damage. The build I used in GvG last Saturday is my attempt at using a build that has been successful for me in PvE. The result was actually very surprising. It seemed to work pretty well. I also tried it in randoms and hero battles and have been very pleased with its success so far. I still think it needs some tweaking, though. Here is my build...
Last edited by Dannzzigg, 3/29/2007, 9:37 pm
--- Check out Dylan's Den!
|
|
3/29/2007, 9:35 pm
|
Send Email to Dannzzigg
Send PM to Dannzzigg
MSN
|
Syragar
Guild Member
Global user
Registered: 08-2005
Posts: 301
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Tanking dervish
quote:
Dannzzigg wrote:
Ebon Dust Aura says "your attack skills also cause blindness" and Shards causes nearby foes to "take damage". Also, Sand Shards is not an attack skill- it is a spell.
That's true. It's an enchantment spell. I knew Shards alone wouldn't trigger the blind effect from Ebon Dust. I was wondering if it would trigger if I were to miss with an attack skill while enchanted with both Ebon Dust Aura and Sand Shards. I knew that normal swings wouldn't cut it.
I know I placed an idea for a build a while back using Ebon Dust Aura... it was an idea and nothing else... you could tell I haven't tested it yet because it doesn't work at all. I wasn't aware at the time that it was attack skills that triggered the effect and not normal attacks.
I seriously doubt this idea would work, but now I want to try testing it out just for the heck of it.
quote:
Dannzzigg wrote:
Have you tested this vs any of the dummies or live targets on the Isle of the Nameless? I'd be curious to see if you can take down the Master of Healing and if so, how long it takes.
Against the dummies, I was able to take them out in a decent amount of time. I was able to kill the Master of Healing, but it took some time. I tried it twice using Vow of Strength for the same result.
I tried it twice with Avatar of Lyssa instead of Vow of Strength... I got about the same results. I would hit a lot harder when my opponent was casting a spell, but I would hit for normal damage otherwise. In the end, it pretty much balanced out. Waiting for Lyssa to recharge can be a pain, though.
I tried Avatar of Melandru with Wearying Strike instead of Vow of Strength and Heart of Holy Flame. It took about the same amount of time, but Melandru eats up 25 energy. With only 1% death penalty you won't be able to use the form. You would probably have to switch to a staff or something for the extra energy... that or put an "I have the power!" inscription in your scythe for extra energy... which I wouldn't recommend over the "Guided by Fate" +15% damage while enchanted.
I also tried the Avatar of Melandru build that was mentioned on the official Guild Wars website. Specifically, the dervish build in the March 26th State of the Game article. Maybe I didn't play it very well, but it took me about the same amount of time to take the Master of Healing down.
I didn't actually time myself, which I should have done. I'll have to try it again and use a stopwatch to figure out how long it actually takes. Although the time it takes I'm sure will be very chaotic. It will heavily depend on what the AI decides to do, which won't always be the same. I'm going to guess it averaged around two minutes each run. I'm measuring it based on how many times I used Heart of Fury. I used it about 3 or 4 times each fight and it has a 30 second cooldown. I know it's not very accurate, but it gives me a general idea.
I know the build can use some tweaking in the offense area. From what I've seen so far, Watchful Intervention and Heart of Holy Flame are probably the most expendable. I'm going to toy with it some more and see if I can squeeze some more damage out of it while still being able to take a beating.
EDIT:
I tried the Ebon Dust thing. Like I thought, it doesn't work. To test the build, I used an ebon scythe. I took Sand Shards, Ebon Dust Aura, Mystic Sweep, and Arcane Mimicry. I put Norgu in my party and gave him Signet of Midnight. I then set him to peace mode so he wouldn't attack. I ran up to a training dummy and cast Sand Shards and Ebon Dust Aura on myself. I cast Arcane Mimicry on Norgu. I then cast the mimic Signet of Midnight on one training dummy, then used Mystic Sweep on another. My attack missed so all of the training dummies took damage. Unfortunately, the only dummy with a condition was the one I cast Signet of Midnight on. Oh well. I figured it was worth a shot.
Last edited by Syragar, 3/30/2007, 1:12 am
---
Dalana Darklight - N/Mo
Terra Windfury - D/E
Yoko Nakagama - W/A
Shyreena Saelana - Rt/R
Shyra Arcana - E/Me |
|
3/30/2007, 12:32 am
|
Send Email to Syragar
Send PM to Syragar
|
Dannzzigg
Founder
Global user
Registered: 09-2003
Posts: 2686
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Tanking dervish
The Ebon Dust thing is all in the wording. When you miss with your attack skill, it's Sand Shard that is hitting (an enchantment) not the attack skill, therefore your attack skill cannot cause blindness.
As for the Melandru Derv, it is difficult to play, but you also have to remember that testing vs the Master of healing is really just a gauge of your pressure. Any build can eventually beat out his energy. I just use it as a gauge inte rms of how fast it can be done, and if I have spike damage, if it can penetrate his healing.
In a team build, the Melandru Dervs function quite well. Solo, they're not so hot. Also, even if you have to switch to a plus energy staff to be able to cast the Avatar, and go into negative energy, you are still ahead of the game because you will never be blinded so your attacks will be connecting much mroe often in PvP than they otherwise would. It's also great for keeping pressure off of your own monks, because of all the conditions they don't have to remove.
--- Check out Dylan's Den!
|
|
3/30/2007, 6:44 pm
|
Send Email to Dannzzigg
Send PM to Dannzzigg
MSN
|
Syragar
Guild Member
Global user
Registered: 08-2005
Posts: 301
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Tanking dervish
You can't say that you'll "never" be blinded as the skill takes two minutes to recharge and lasts about one minute depending on your Mysticism skill. So you are vulnerable to blindness (as well as other conditions) for about a minute after it wears off... unless you get a morale boost or something to reset the skill.
I'm not dissing Avatar of Melandru at all. It's a great skill! I still use it a lot. I have a lot of builds that use it. I'm just saying you need to make some sacrifices if you want to still be able to use it while you are suffering from a death penalty. It's a very energy hungry skill.
---
Dalana Darklight - N/Mo
Terra Windfury - D/E
Yoko Nakagama - W/A
Shyreena Saelana - Rt/R
Shyra Arcana - E/Me |
|
3/30/2007, 8:26 pm
|
Send Email to Syragar
Send PM to Syragar
|
Add a reply
Powered by AkBBS 0.9.5b - Link to us
- Blogs
- Hall of Honour
- Chat
Click here to get your own free message board
|
You are not logged in (login)
Board's time is: 11/25/2009, 10:48 am
|
|
|
