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Adam de Salzburg ---- noble opportunist with William I


From Salisbury genealogical histories (Welsh and American) we gather that Adam was the youngest son of Henry Guelph, Duke of Bavaria. His brother succeeded to that title, but he as youngest decided to go seek his fortune. Teaming up with William, he gave stirling service in the invasion, and was rewarded with a large land grant from Richmondshire down to the lower Ribble Valley. Probably it was he who built the original Salesbury Hall (destroyed by Scots in c. 1320)near Blackburn.
QUESTION: Where is the evidence in British history to confirm this information?

According to Norman custom he adopted the name "de Salzburg"; and this soon became anglicised in various forms, arriving at "Salisbury". [We trace our ancestors back to the 1500s in the Ribble Valley area--presumably they inherited lands over prev. 400 years? Our armorial bearings are similar to Welsh Salusburys, but there are diffs.]
QUESTION: Does this speak of a northern origin of the name Salisbury? Were there in fact multiple origins? Who knows?
Thousands(?) of Salisburys wait with bated breath!!
Jul/11/2005, 10:12 pm Link to this post Send Email to Kevinsal   Send PM to Kevinsal
 
mousteriana Profile
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Re: Adam de Salzburg ---- noble opportunist with William I


Kevinsal:

Is this Adam de Salzburg listed in Domesday at all?
Anne G
Jul/12/2005, 2:48 am Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 
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Re: Adam de Salzburg ---- noble opportunist with William I


Kevinsal, De Salzburg does not show up in The Companions Of The Conqueror list based on the Battle Abbey Roll. Neither does he appear in any texts associated with The Norman Revolution 1058-1100.He certainly was not part of the Conqueror's revolutionist-cluniacist leadership which is not to diminish his personal role since quite a few people enlisted in the Conqueror's cause afer Pope Alexander 11 gave it the approval of Holy Mother Church but were excluded from the Conqueror's core-leadership team, for obvious political reasons, and do not appear in landholdings for Angleland during the relevant time-frame.Did he fight at Senlac? It's impossible to say with certainty.Those who did were rewarded directly for their revolutionary achievemsnts with portions of land.In the case of Ribble,Domesday cites it as in the ownership of Roger de Poitou and soon after the Conqueror.De Salzburg does not appear in Domesday as a landowner in Yorkshire where Richmond is located.Salisbury is cited in Domesday as being owned by the Bishop of Salisbury.The reference you make to Salesbury is derived from Salesbury, Lancashire.Likewise, Salisbury name-wise is derived from the Anglo-Saxon words sahl meaning willow and burh meaning fortress or manor.

Bill H, Dinsdale (both in personal capacity)
Jul/23/2005, 10:09 am Link to this post Send Email to thewilliam theredforum2002   Send PM to thewilliam theredforum2002
 
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Re: Adam de Salzburg ---- noble opportunist with William I


Bill:

Thank you. I asked the question I did, because Icouldn't remember any "Adam de Salzburg" anywhere in Domesday, and some of the tenants-in-chier and their subtenants had names that "stood out" in my book, so to speak. It is possible that such a person may have come to England after 1100, though.
Anne G
Jul/24/2005, 4:23 am Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 
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Re: Adam de Salzburg ---- noble opportunist with William I


Thanks to both of you;
The claim that Adam Guelph of Bavaria came to Britain with William in 1066 was made inthe "Heraldic Visitations" in Wales, when Welsh Salusburys traced their pedigree back to him.
Also in the 1700s a woman of that lineage visited Bavaria and found their story intact of Adam going to Britain...
QUESTION : Did he have an alias in the records you are familiar with? Is "Guelph" or "Welf" there by any chance?

There may be some benefit gained from quoting from a website (no source given there):
"The Salisbury family took its rise in Germany, and long before the conquest of England its head resided in Bavaria. The original name of the family was Guelph, and its leading member, Henry Guelph, was inthe year 1024 made Duke of Bavaria, by the Emperor Conrad the second. The first duke had several sons, the youngest of whom, Prince Adam, came over to England in the train of William of Normandy, in the year 1066. This young prince did not, however, come with William as a subject of his Norman dukedom, for he owed him no allegiance; but he came in the character of a soldier of fortune, and in that character took his part in the great battle of Hastings. For his services on that occasion he was rewarded by King William with a grant of an extensive tract of land in Richmondshire, running southward to the river Ribble in Lancashire, and it was in this place the younger branch of the royal family of Bavaria first settled in England.
" Adam Guelph soon dropped his German surname. He followed the Norman fashion of taking the name of a particular place for a surname and thus became Adam de Saltzburg, or Adam of Saltzburg- Saltzburg being the name of the place in Bavaria from which he came. He settled upon his new possessions, built himself a home at no great distance from Preston, called it after his new name, and by that name, Salmsbury Court or Salebury Hall; it is known to this day. [NB written in 1890s; the former name is possibly Samlesbury Hall nearer Preston, the latter probably Salesbury Hall, nearer Blackburn]

" Adam de Saltzburg was not as many of his descendants proudly suppose, a Norman, but a pure Saxon, having the same origin as the House of Saxony."

The time of Adam de Saltzburg’s death is uncertain, but in the year 1102 his eldest son, Alexander de Saltzburg, had succeeded to the father’s vast possessions. Alexander died in 1153. He left two sons, Alexander and Henry. The eldest succeeded to the Lancashire property and Henry to an estate in Cheshire."
(end of quote)

My impression is that this is tale that has grown in the telling. Yet there are dates and names...
Another line to pursue is to look at the names of the spouses of his son and grandson in the purported genealogies:

2. Adam Guelph DE SALZBURG was born in Salzburg.
Came to England with William the Conquerer. He then took the name of Salzberg from the name of the city of that name in Bavaria from which he came. The name has since been sotoned to Salisbury, Salsbury, and Saulsbury.
Adam married (1) Joyce DAMPELL, daughter of Sir William DAMPELL.
They had the following children:
+ 3 M i. Alexander SALISBURY.

Third Generation
3. Alexander SALISBURY.
Alexander married (1) Maria DE WARREN, daughter of DE WARREN.
They had the following children:
+ 4 M i. Sir Thomas SALISBURY.

Fourth Generation
4. Sir Thomas SALISBURY.
Sir married (1) Janette. Daughter and heir of Sir William de Maundeville the hero of Acre Temp.
Sir and Janette had the following children:
+ 5 M i. Sir Henry SALISBURY.

I've cut it off here, but then follows the whole pedigree of the Welsh Salusburys...
Their armorial bearings are very similar to the ones passed down through our Lancashire branch (Salisburys), showing attendance at three crusades, and some link with a baron or duke.
Does the Victoria History of Lancashire //orYorkshire go back to medieval times?

The riddle we are trying to solve is how is it that Salisburys were living in the 1600s in the Forest of Bowland area of west Yorkshire and other parts of the Ribble valley? Might they not have always lived in those parts, and after the crusades one of them went off to settle in Wales?

Appreciate your expertise and opinions.


Jul/24/2005, 7:48 am Link to this post Send Email to Kevinsal   Send PM to Kevinsal
 
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Re: Adam de Salzburg ---- noble opportunist with William I


All:

Uh, I kind of look at that "geneology" with a certain amount of suspicion. For one thing, the names of the people don't sound right for the period in question.
Anne G
Jul/24/2005, 6:55 pm Link to this post Send Email to mousteriana   Send PM to mousteriana
 
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Re: Adam de Salzburg ---- noble opportunist with William I


Yeah, agree,Anne
Try this document which is more carefully researched in the 19th?century.
http://members.aol.com/dalesman/wales1.htm

Note that it refers to a theory of Lancastrian origin as being debatable.....
But note too how strong they were on Adam....
I believe this book tallies with the "Heraldic Visitations".
Jul/25/2005, 4:57 am Link to this post Send Email to Kevinsal   Send PM to Kevinsal
 
Latapy77 Profile
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Re: Adam de Salzburg ---- noble opportunist with William I


"Yeah, agree,Anne
Try this document which is more carefully researched in the 19th?century.
http://members.aol.com/dalesman/wales1.htm"

I was not able to open the link. What are the author and title of the above-mentioned document ?

Thank you
Oct/15/2013, 7:00 pm Link to this post Send Email to Latapy77   Send PM to Latapy77 Blog
 


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