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oooMatron
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
Hi Chef,
Was sorry to miss them at Southport, can't do many weekenders unfortunately!
Pleased to hear you'll be stickin' at it  Hopefully see you at future WCS dance events, wish there were more of them!
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5/Jun/2006, 6:59 pm
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Corporal Whip
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
DVDs are great perhaps we can talk to cat & lee see if they interested in putting a beginners Disc together.
All u need then is a partner, a floor and a boogie box and your away with the coasters.
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10/Jun/2006, 3:42 pm
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sugartuck
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
With a discount for orders via Corpral Whip I assume?
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13/Jun/2006, 6:19 pm
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davethesmooth
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
quote:
Corporal Whip wrote:
DVDs are great perhaps we can talk to cat & lee see if they interested in putting a beginners Disc together.
All u need then is a partner, a floor and a boogie box and your away with the coasters.
I would be very interested too, keep us informed
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16/Jun/2006, 5:47 pm
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Chef Dancer
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
quote:
Corporal Whip wrote:
DVDs are great perhaps we can talk to cat & lee see if they interested in putting a beginners Disc together.
All u need then is a partner, a floor and a boogie box and your away with the coasters.
I have talked to Cat and Lee about this because I feel there is a huge need for a DVD of beginners foundations stuff. My reasoning is as follows.
The reason that most of the people did not keep going after the WCS beginners course at Dartford finished was that most people told me that they couldn't get the basic footwork patterns sorted out early enough and some said that if they missed one week they were left floundering and unable to catch back up. WCS seems to have a huge drop out rate and not a very fast recruitment rate. Anything that can be done to stem the haemorrhage of beginners during the first 8 classes would be useful to the growth of WCS. There are beginners DVDs available - you can buy them from the US for £25-30 but the question is would you if you weren't already very committed to WCS. If you were that committed to WCS you would just go to lessons - where the first three months just seem to be a battle to learn the footwork, lead, follow, positioning......a nightmare from which few break through to the other side.
If the classes had a DVD that covers the stuff that would be taught in the first two months of classes that it could loan them out with a deposit for safe return (rather like ceroc do with beginner and intermediate DVDs) then the poor confused beginners could use them between lessons to reinforce what they had been taught in great detail in the class.
Hopefully there will be no more looks of confusion from the beginners and mutterings of "I just can't remember this from last week" shortly followed by their absence next week.
Suitable DVDs from the american teachers have terms and conditions that prevent them being hired or loaned.
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20/Jun/2006, 5:48 pm
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AllanAJ
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
quote:
Chef Dancer wrote:
If the classes had a DVD that covers the stuff that would be taught in the first two months of classes that it could loan them out with a deposit for safe return (rather like ceroc do with beginner and intermediate DVDs) then the poor confused beginners could use them between lessons to reinforce what they had been taught in great detail in the class.
How about a low-quality homemade job that only costs £10? I'd go for that!
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20/Jun/2006, 7:30 pm
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Chef Dancer
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
I have been thinking about this for a week so this is going to be a big post – sorry.
The idea of having a low cost beginners DVD has been mulling around in my mind ever since seeing the utter confusion in people as they went from week to week of the beginners course that was run at Dartford.
WCS seems to be a complete sod to get off of the bottom of the learning curve with and I think this is why there was such an astonishing drop out rate during and after the course. Ceroc doesn’t have this problem because there is hardly any grounding in theory or technique needed. So newcomers can join at almost any time and there is a support structure to help them with the little they need to know. The only thing that I have seen that really works in WCS are intensive courses (max of 2 x 1 hours per teaching day or the brains get fried) like the ones I was lucky enough to have at Beach Boogie and Dartford. But there doesn’t seem to be any other support for beginners in WCS. No taxi dancers, no revision classes, no beginners DVD (like Ceroc offers on free loan). Nothing to get that all important technique into your soul before next weeks class. About 4 weeks into the beginners class a rather dispirited leader asked me “when does it start to be fun?” He almost felt that he was back at the bottom again every single week. Now it might be that he would never have made a WCS dancer but unless something can be done to support the beginners we do get and convert them into people who are having fun then we are going to continue with classes closing down because our world class teachers can’t make a decent living out of teaching and we punters won’t have a thriving dance scene to have fun in.
I think the idea of a beginners DVD to support beginners during those critical first 6 weeks of a beginners course is a good one. Raw beginners won’t know about what DVDs are out there or where to get them and the dispirited beginners will leave long before they think it is a good idea. Here is the radical bit. I think that the cost of the DVD should be factored into the cost of the course. You want to start learning WCS you sign up for and pay up front for the course and get given (since it is included in the course cost) the beginners DVD to support your course work between the training sessions. This would mean that beginners’ courses run on a regular basis, perhaps every 6 months. I have known many people that have tried to pick up WCS for a few years so the prospect of waiting 6 months to get on the next beginners course wouldn’t seem that bad. The beginners’ course would therefore need to be a separate enterprise from the regular WCS club but would be the gateway into it.
Making a DVD of this type need not be as expensive as it used to be but still teachers of good reputation and authority are required to do it and thing like licenses to use music within the DVD must be obtained and paid for and this adds to the cost.
Unfortunately WCS teachers do not have an umbrella organisation like Ceroc that would handle projects like this centrally and enable the cost and the effort to be spread amongst all. I know that the WCS teachers in this country are talented and passionate about this dance but I can’t help having the feeling that to push WCS forwards in this country a more consolidated national strategy will be required.
So why would WCS teachers want to do things like contributing to a beginners DVD, running beginners courses, organising themselves nationally and doing some things centrally? Because beginners that get off the bottom of that learning curve keep coming back and keep paying week after week. Bigger classes and bigger freestyles mean a decent income for the teachers and that isn’t going to happen with the current beginners drop out rate that I have seen.
If any WCS teachers (or organisation of teachers) want to do a beginners DVD then I will offer my amateur video and editing services free.
WCS is smouldering but is failing to ignite.
So here are my feelings summed up.
WCS beginners need a much better support structure.
The gateway into the regular clubs needs to be well supported and structured beginner courses.
A beginners DVD and /or notes would a good way of supporting beginners.
I think that national cooperation of WCS teachers would achieve more than the individuals could. Whether the individuals could tolerate it is another matter.
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30/Jun/2006, 5:20 pm
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AllanAJ
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
Excellent post Chef! I agree we need a more supportive structure. I am not so sure it's 'smouldering & failing to ignite'- I think it's sparking here and there and the flame is getting bigger. But yes the drop-out rate is far too high, and WCS teachers need to ensure it's kept simple & taught well. If there was a 'UK WCS Teachers Association' or something, would people bother?? A WCS teachers weekend is maybe a start, a beginners DVD would be great, maybe venues can even do their own if they can get hold of the gear. Must we compare it to Ceroc though? Different on so many levels.
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1/Jul/2006, 12:02 am
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rosieR
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
I still think DVDs are better as a supplement to classes, and experienced dancers would get more out of them than a beginner. Espcially in WCS where the elements of style need to be broken down and people need physical help with it. Sure a DVD could reiterate the basic footwork and yes it may encourage a newcomer to hand in there a bit longer. Not sure it's the solution to our high drop-out rate though.
---
X Rosie X
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1/Jul/2006, 11:17 am
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Chef Dancer
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Re: Learning from DVD/Video
Sorry about making comparisions to Ceroc. They do have a good support structure for beginners though and that was the only thing that I wanted to draw attention to.
I have found tht DVDs as a sole method of learning are not great. I have the benefit now, when learning from DVDs (as I now have to do) of having a fair grounding in the basics. Without that grounding I think that learning from DVDs would be next to useless.
When I was talking about a beginners DVD being produced to go with a beginners course I only ever envisaged that the two would be linked together. I think that such a DVD would be an invaluble aid to memory during those vital early days. I do think that a beginners DVD WITHOUT the course would be next to useless. The course covers 16 teaching hours a DVD could only cover 90 minutes.
Whether the teachers would like to each produce theri own or the countries teachers would band together and produce one that all could use is up to them.
I just think that the drop out rate for beginners being as high as it is not helping the teachers to have a decent income or the WCS scene to reach a critical mass.
Just the personal view of an ordinary punter that would llike more and closer places to learn, to dance and other dancers to dance with.
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2/Jul/2006, 12:26 am
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