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Abbey Normal
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Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay...
Heh, in my dreams he can be whatever I want him to be 
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8/13/2006, 10:01 pm
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MelindaKitty
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Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay...
*takes a deep breath*
Okay.
As some of you may have guessed based on my posts, I'm bisexual. I'm closeted in many spheres because for a number of years I was a schoolteacher, and though many inroads have been made in guaranteeing rights for non-straight teachers, I knew being out openly could very easily mean my job. (Especially when I switched to private schools, which tend to get away with more bull**** like that.)
Anyway. I bring this up here because (as Venturous so eloquently said) to me V represents the perfect balance between yin and yang, male and female, strong and sensitive. He is very definitely a man, and a rather masculine one at that. But he also has enormous artistry, sensibility, and capacity for deep and meaningful emotion. His verbal skills are decidedly above average for a man too. Does this mean he pictures himself in a threesome with Evey and Robert Donat? I don't think so. In some ways, much as the lot of us lust after him, I think V functions in another sphere entirely.
The scars only reinforced this, I believe. As someone (I believe it was Leda) said in an e-mail, his impotence in some ways makes him MORE who he is, as he lives in his head, his heart, and the physicality of his vendetta. Who he would choose as a bedmate (other than Evey, which is pretty hard to miss) is less interesting to me than how he chooses to use his time. He is by turns cold and calculating; warm and feeling; analytical and wise; cool and collected. He's NEITHER and BOTH, and that is why he fascinates me.
V cannot be easily qualified and quantified. He doesn't fit in any neat little boxes, which is why he's such a marvelous character. Moreover, in loving someone who doesn't completely fit into any category but sort of fits in all of them, we are shown a mirror.
So the real question is: If you do need him to identify as the same orientation as you, why?
And if you don't, why not?
--- 
"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence."
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8/13/2006, 10:06 pm
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Abbey Normal
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Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay...
^ Said much better than I could have, but you pretty much wrote down my thoughts exactly. I'm one of those people for whom having sex is insignificant next to the emotional impact of another person, whether real or fictional. I'm strongly drawn to angrogyny, and while V isn't androgynous, I think he does represent in equal quantities those qualities which are thought of as masculine and feminine. I think that's why so many people identify with him, because they find enough they can grasp onto, no matter who they are. V is one extreme and the other and everything in between.
quote:
V cannot be easily qualified and quantified. He doesn't fit in any neat little boxes, which is why he's such a marvelous character. Moreover, in loving someone who doesn't completely fit into any category but sort of fits in all of them, we are shown a mirror.
Yes! Reading the graphic novel and then seeing the movie was a huge step forward in my own growth. I had to ask myself questions that nobody else had ever asked me. It's been a wonderful summer 
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8/13/2006, 11:15 pm
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Venturous
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Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay...
quote:
So the real question is: If you do need him to identify as the same orientation as you, why?
And if you don't, why not?
hahahaha
perhaps we all see life through our own mirror - as genuinely bisexual person, I tend to project that onto others. doesnt everyone have just a teeny drop of same sex attraction?
my much-loved business partner is a gay male, who ahs had to endure my longtime crush on his sensitive, pretty-boy self. We used to argue about this -- heatedly, then as years went on, good naturedly. "Everybody is bi!" I would exclaim, hoepfully. 
If he is attracted at all to me it is for my masculine qualities. The darling is, where sex and romance are concerned, gay as pink cake. But he loves me for all the world, and will always be my friend, ally, partner.
I love strong women and beautiful men. Let me be more accurate: I love all kinds of people, but I want to have sex with strong, independant wise females, and elven, pretty males, preferrably with long hair, sensitivity and graceful hands. 
So, the magnetic V loses nothing in my eyes no matter which way he lusts. I love the male/female yin/yang because that is what I feel I am made of.
is it all but a form of self-appreciation?
---  "There is no certainty, only opportunity." -- V
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8/15/2006, 8:49 am
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LadyVendetta
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Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay...
quote:
MelindaKitty wrote:
So the real question is: If you do need him to identify as the same orientation as you, why?
And if you don't, why not?
Okay....long response...be patient....LOL
I can only speak from my own experience. I've mentioned before about the guy who expressed romantic interests in me in college. We had a big fight and didn't speak again. Then years later, out of the blue, he contacts me and acts all hetero. I find out that he was using me to get into a neighborhood where a friend of mine works so he can get a home for him and his boyfriend (used the 'oh by the way, I forgot to tell you I'm gay' bit). Then I pulled what he pulled on me, I stopped talking to him. He pulled that 'you're not talking to me because you're a bigot' crap but that wasn't the case. (He didn't exactly say it, but it was definitely implied)
Short story long, sexual orientation mattered because he was manipulating me to get what he wanted. I don't like being manipulated and then being told I'm a bigot. I know I'm not a bigot. I'm a damn good person and he can go to hell.
For V's character, it really doesn't matter what orientation he is. What really matters is this: Is V basically a good person? Does he think outside of himself?
He does things we REALLY don't like (like Delia's death as well as Evey's torture). He does things we despise, but he does things that we admire (thinking of others and not ME ME ME!, thinking of the greater good rather than solely his personal interessts). He's intelligent and can be compassionate (Evey taught him that) rather than be a whiny brat. He does 'use a lie to tell the truth' with torturing Evey but it was so that she could 'live without fear. I wish there was an easier way." I hate the way he did it, but in a way, it wasn't for his ego but for Evey to be able to be strong for the upcoming revolution.
So, for me, it's the measure of the man that counts rather than the orientation. It would be nice to meet a straight guy with similar qualities to V (without the torture and killing bit LOL) to spend my life with--a guy who's intelligent, strong, has strong beliefs, will stand by me and miss me when I'm not around.
Does that make any sense? LOL
Oh MK, did send you a longish pm. Hope I didn't clutter your box too much.
--- 
"I've never played hopscotch with nuns!"--Eddie Izzard
"You don't accidentally become an ass. It takes a bit of work."--Ozzy Ozbourne |
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8/15/2006, 10:52 am
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Vienna7
Captain Viennaway
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Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay...
quote:
LadyVendetta wrote:
He does 'use a lie to tell the truth' with torturing Evey but it was so that she could 'live without fear. I wish there was an easier way." I hate the way he did it, but in a way, it wasn't for his ego but for Evey to be able to be strong for the upcoming revolution.
I am going to veer off a bit here, but this has been on my mind as of late. From a purely ethical standpoint and taking into consideration Machiavelli's "The end justifies the means," what was the difference between Creedy's idea to experiment on the country thinking it was for the greater good and V's torture of Evey, thinking it was for her own good. Certainly, the scale is quite different. Also, Evey didn't die (but she could have). Still, in it's essence, is there a difference here?  I would be interested your thoughts on this.
---
In honor of KaTie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beauty is just the beginning of a terror we can only just barely endure,
and we admire it so because it calmly disdains to destroy us.
Every angel is terrible. (Rilke's elegy)
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8/15/2006, 6:02 pm
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Venturous
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Re: What with the "theories" about V being gay...
quote:
From a purely ethical standpoint and taking into consideration Machiavelli's "The end justifies the means," what was the difference between Creedy's idea to experiment on the country thinking it was for the greater good and V's torture of Evey, thinking it was for her own good. Certainly, the scale is quite different. Also, Evey didn't die (but she could have). Still, in it's essence, is there a difference here? I would be interested your thoughts on this.
Vienna, this is indeed an important question, a challenge, really, of the film.
I believe that we got into this quite a bit at this thread:
Disturbing Themes of SadoMasochism? that began back in May and saw a lot of interesting dialog until fairly recently.
Have a look through and lets revive this topic, over there, or on its own new thread.
--- "There is no certainty, only opportunity." -- V
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8/15/2006, 6:35 pm
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CyranoRox
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Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay...
V, following Einstein, is certain that you can create a chosen outcome; the Veniversum which he, living, has conquered, is not random. This may be the difference between his world and ours, which i take to have a 'quantum' character, and be governed by a God who does gamble, if not exactly with dice.
this matters because V is certain of the results; therefore, since what he does to Evey can be confidently counted on to achieve a good end, greater than the intermediate evil, he can proceed in good conscience. We, who do play with dice, cannot act this way; people who think they can in real life often impress us as mad.
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8/18/2006, 11:27 pm
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Vienna7
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Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay...
So, CR, it sounds like you're saying that V was living in a whole other dimension of sorts; one that knows the unrolling of the carpet of time - of predetermined outcome.
Still, the mind is very tricky, creating half-truth illusions. Many people who'd thought this way (that things are "certain" and "good") have ended up causing great harm to themselves and others (and sometimes ended up in mental institutions). Who then, can judge who is really in this higher (for lack of a better word right now) state of being? Gurus? Holy men? This reminds me of the phrase Who is Watching the Watchmen.
Hmmm...thinking further, perhaps it doesn't matter if the experience is valid, because it just *is*.
Creedy is the the one "who think they can in real life often impress us as mad" and V is the "quantum character." I believe God (although my definition is probably quite different than others) does gamble and that nature is very predictably unpredictable and everchanging. And yet, there are patterned convergences, as it were. There is a great chapter in the book I am reading (Everything that Rise: A Book of Convergences") about this very topic.
Oh....it seems we're somehow back the topic of ceremonial magick -- at least in it's pure form.
Edits: Gosh, I have to slow down and proof my text more. 
Last edited by Vienna7, 8/19/2006, 11:33 am
---
In honor of KaTie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beauty is just the beginning of a terror we can only just barely endure,
and we admire it so because it calmly disdains to destroy us.
Every angel is terrible. (Rilke's elegy)
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8/19/2006, 11:29 am
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