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Voracious Voyeur wrote:

In another thread - which I've lost track of - Cobralily mentioned that she'd always thought that one of the 2 men dragged out of bed, beaten, bagged, & whisked away during Valerie's voice over was V. I was struck by that comment because I've always thought so, too.

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pwsull wrote: I must say RedZen your essay is beautiful, well thought out and on target:

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RedZen wrote: So what am I getting at? That what bugs many about V and E-V is that, because of context, execution, and outcome, V has transgressed - and redefined! - lines which lie at the very deepest places of our being. About what others may do to us. About consent. About respect. About dignity. We've redeemed what he has done, even if we are reluctant to embrace that redemption. Even if your (intellectualized...) principles remain intact, and even want to condemn V, experiencing his actions has spoken to your heart, and your heart loves him for what he has done. And heart wins over the rational mind, every time.

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pwsull wrote: Starting to sound like a broken record here, I am afraid, but I will say again that what "gets me everytime" about this film is the mirror work the authors do. Mirror work as in magic, yes.....but also mirror work in terms of Other World (CyranoRox's Lewis Carrol references), and in terms of reflection of ourselves upon us. Everything in this film appears designed to make us challenge our assumptions. Hence many questions are left unanswered for us to ponder....and there is no definitive answer to these questions such as "is it OK to torture someone if your intent is noble and they indeed achieve enlightenment?" , or "is it OK to cold bloodedly murder people in vengeance if they are beyond the reach of the law?" Shortly after the film came out I did a published review which you can find here on this board: The Best Cautionary Tales Entertain. In it I tried to highlight the thought provoking way the Wachowskis and McTeigue pair the psychopathic and reprehensible with the altruistic and heroic....a Mind-Fawlke if there ever was one! And certainly there are many "Is V Gay or Bi?" traps set for us throughout the film. To name a few: the hinted at Dietrich/V connections ("Bonjour Mademoiselle", Eggy in a Basket, Secret Underground Lairs, "Humble Vaudevillian Veterans"); snappy dressing and fabulous interior decorating skills; and for me most importantly: the only prisoners at Lark Hill we recognize from other scenes in the film are presented as gay (Vallerie and the mixed race gay couple)...implying perhaps that Lark Hill is a detention facility for non-heterosexual "deviants". The point though is not the answers to these questions, but the asking. We are meant to ponder them either consciously or subliminaly....the juxtapositions and paradoxes....the shock of seeing the "evil" and the "good" mix and evolve toward cruelty/power/control or altruism...the Yin and Yang....the shades of grey. Our personal, societal, and cultural biases and rigidities are … brought into question and re-examined. And that is what we do here with many a beautiful and compelling essay. But I am not sure we should be looking for answers....rather like Evey enlightenment and understanding....a shift in perspective....an emotional lightbulb illuminating over our heads....and we say Ahaaaa, WOW!!!!, now I get it!, but can't really explain what it is.

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Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay... Page 6 Crowfly

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CrowFly wrote: I agree that V's choices, disfigurement/torture and obsession have made him effectively asexual. And I suspect that is part of his attraction, that Evey and many others want to break through that perceived ice, to find his vulnerability, to both surrender to him and to be surrended to by him. It's been well documented in this thread that the backplot places him as a homosexual, at least based on his imprisonment in Larkhill in that "elite" crew. And the graphic novel goes even further. And just like the US' dear queer hypocritical Rep Foley, there's all sorts of clues that the fascists are queer too, although they don't admit it. So with that inlaid, it's really interesting that there are the lingering Evey lips to mask scenes, with V saying he is in love with her. And in the end, that's undone, because she says while Parliament is burning, that he was you and me and my father and my mother etc etc which is nothing like he was our lover.... The movie wants all of us to love his male dominatrix charm, and it does make it compelling, no matter what the character's chosen sexual partner or post-Larkhill sexual ability would be. From a jaded outside critical point of view, I'd say the filmmakers wanted to have it all ways. Because I don't recall anything so ambiguous in the graphic novel (correct me if I'm wrong, and apologies in advance...) As someone who found V unsexy, and eventually even Evey unsexy because she could love someone who brainwashed/abused her in that way, I can't claim a below-the-waist, fantasy attachment to his sexuality one way or another. Although like many folks, I was glad to see gay/queer life shown in a positive way, and homophobia highlighted as a lie/hatred embedded in fascism. And for me, finally, that's the most important point. Others have explored this. By making V and Creedy mirrors, by making his remedy almost as bad as the regime he topples, by making his sexuality ambiguous, they challenge our assumptions. And also call attention to the homophobia that is embedded in the conservative ideologies that have gained power in the world now, and have historically risen with homophobia as one justifcation. For me, the political consistency is what I trust most in this movie, since it's a really sometimes delicious mess in some other ways. So it's politics 10, sexual fantasy -- 3, in service to the politics.... What do you think? Crowfly

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Later

P

PostScript: CR I liked your Valerie's Statement,
PWS

Last edited by pwsull, 4/15/2009, 8:44 pm

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"Perily, this pichyssoise of perbiage peers most perbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me"...... P

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pwsull wrote:

Being the obsessive I am though (and don’t ever get an obsessive going), I can’t just drop in and then let it go without engaging in at least a spot of cerebral mishigas and debate. So Voracious Voyeur, you have stirred the pot and got me re-reading the debate from

Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay...

Re: Whatwith the "theories" about V being gay... Page 3 pwsull

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pwsull wrote: ... Everything in this film appears designed to make us challenge our assumptions. Hence many questions are left unanswered for us to ponder....and there is no definitive answer to these questions...

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CrowFly wrote: ... By making V and Creedy mirrors, by making his remedy almost as bad as the regime he topples, by making his sexuality ambiguous, they challenge our assumptions. And also call attention to the homophobia that is embedded in the conservative ideologies that have gained power in the world now, and have historically risen with homophobia as one justification.

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Voracious Voyeur wrote:

Just some loose stuff off the top of my head.

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