Page: 1 2
ButMadNNW
Chief Inspector
Global user
Registered: 03-2006
Location: Limbo
Posts: 11576
Karma: 171 (+172/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
I don't have the book yet - heck, I haven't even read Book 6 yet! But I thought I'd provide a discussion spot for Book 7 and the series on a whole. Spoilers welcome, so if you're behind like me, stay out of here. 
Chat on! 
|
|
7/21/2007, 2:01 pm
|
Send Email to ButMadNNW
Yahoo
|
friendlysolarflare
Detective Sergeant
Global user
Registered: 04-2006
Location: Snape's Office
Posts: 11040
Karma: 204 (+205/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
No spoilers in this post
Thanks for starting this thread, ButMad. I guess I'll be the only one here for a while until you've all read book 7 
Snape is what matters most to me in regard to book 7. Is he good or evil? Will he live or die? Why did he kill Dumbledore? etc.
Thanks to the internet and especially alt.fan.harry-potter I now know some of the answers
I just bought books 5 & 6 which I have to work my way through before buying book 7.
|
|
7/21/2007, 3:44 pm
|
Send Email to friendlysolarflare
|
Venturous
Consul
Global user
Registered: 06-2006
Location: Swamp Forest
Posts: 2015
Karma: 105 (+105/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
OOP SPOILER:
I loved re-reading Phoenix in prep for the film, and I stopped just as they entered the Dept of Mysteries. That way the movie climax xould be 'a surprise'.  One advantage of a memory like a Leaky Cauldron !
So then, the rest of the book was fabulously detailed in a way the movie cannot be, for instance, poor Ron, attacked by brains!!! 
That's pretty funny, since his friends are the brainiest kids, not that Ron isn't intelligent, but he seems a sweet and ernest foil to the anxious genius Harry and the uptight genius Hermione.
I am delighted we have our own Vixen Potterville... I am anticipating the new book with bittersweet longing.
---  "There is no certainty, only opportunity." -- V
Venturous on IJ
|
|
7/22/2007, 9:22 am
|
Send Email to Venturous
Send PM to Venturous
AIM
|
Leda74
VEEK
Global user
Registered: 03-2006
Location: London, U.K.
Posts: 3541
Karma: 118 (+119/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
Big huge massive spoilers ahoy! I'm not kidding!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Looks like I'm the first to finish it. As Kittywife and ButMad will verify, it wasn't without considerable effort, and involved pulling not one but two all-nighters this weekend...
Well. I do a fair amount of leaking at movies, but it's been a very long time since a book made me cry. And this time, not once, but three times. I'd been prepared for deaths - Rowling's own prior hints had made it clear that we'd be suffering losses - but I don't think I realised until now just how attached I had become to some of the characters, particularly Dobby. I had to put the book aside for a while to compose myself after he died  Brave, sweet little Dobby...
Hedwig's death also hit hard; maybe even a little harder for the fact that it was incidental, and seemed (unlike Dobby's sacrifice) to be so meaningless and shocking. On the other hand, I do recognise that this is an accurate depiction of the way deaths frequently occur in real life.
I was also, in spite of suffering another attack of the weepies, oddly glad that at least Remus and Tonks died together.
On the bright side, I was happy that some of my fondest wishes were realised; most notably that Dumbledore's (and my) faith in Professor Snape wasn't misplaced. I'd found it very hard to reconcile what Snape did at the end of HBP with my belief that he would turn out all right in the end, but now I understand. Rest in peace, Professor. At least you're reunited with Lily now 
And as for Ron and Hermione getting together.....well, I think we all saw that one coming. Nevertheless, bravo!!! 
I think my two loudest "YAY!!!" moments were when Neville faced down Voldemort, and Molly Weasley's incandescent assault on Bellatrix Lestrange. Now there was someone who deserved to go out a lot harder than she did.
I'm also happy that Draco was - insofar as he was never actually evil, merely an odious little git - redeemed. Well, sort of redeemed, anyway. I don't doubt that he's going to continue to be a rather unpleasant, snotty person, or that his son is going to take after him, but nonetheless. I'm still glad he made it through. Come the finish, I was feeling genuinely sorry for Narcissa's terror for her son.
One thing that I think was handled very nicely was Harry's reactions to the gradual unveiling of Dumbledore's less-than-admirable family background. I too have once been put in the position of finding out a few home truths about someone I cared for after they'd passed away.....and it's no fun. It really isn't. It was hard enough for me to cope with processing such revelations; for someone who'd been through as much as Harry, I can only try to appreciate not only the betrayal but the fear he would be going through.
There'll be more later, when a) someone else is in a position to join the discussion, and b) I've had a little more sleep  But until then, may I just end by saying....well done, Ms. Rowling 
Last edited by Leda74, 7/22/2007, 10:31 am
--- "What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil" - Friedrich Nietzsche
"V For Vendetta" Shrine
 |
|
7/22/2007, 10:24 am
|
Send Email to Leda74
Send PM to Leda74
AIM
Yahoo
Blog
|
friendlysolarflare
Detective Sergeant
Global user
Registered: 04-2006
Location: Snape's Office
Posts: 11040
Karma: 204 (+205/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
DH SPOILERS IN THIS POST
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
quote:
Leda74 wrote:
On the bright side, I was happy that some of my fondest wishes were realised; most notably that Dumbledore's (and my) faith in Professor Snape wasn't misplaced.
That was a great relief to me as well, as I've grown more and more "fond" of Snape during the last movies.
quote:
Rest in peace, Professor. At least you're reunited with Lily now
Oh, I'm looking forward to know more about their back story I'm discussing this with a friend of mine who has no interest in HP at all and she jokingly said to me, that Snape is Harry's father - I don't believe her though
Someone wrote this in alt.fan.harry-potter:
quote:
Snape's loyalty? I found this to be the saddest part of the book. As many people guessed, all was not what it seemed with Dumbledore, and the two did indeed have a plan that would eventually result in Snape killing him. But, Snape was only in on things for personal gain, and when Voldemort learns of this, he is obviously furious with Snape.
I don't really like the "Snape was only in on things for personal gain" bit, and somehow I refuse to believe it's true. I think the person posted the comment before the book was released so it might be based on rumours not facts.
What do you say to this, Leda?
|
|
7/22/2007, 2:11 pm
|
Send Email to friendlysolarflare
|
Leda74
VEEK
Global user
Registered: 03-2006
Location: London, U.K.
Posts: 3541
Karma: 118 (+119/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
quote:
friendlysolarflare wrote:
I don't really like the "Snape was only in on things for personal gain" bit, and somehow I refuse to believe it's true. I think the person posted the comment before the book was released so it might be based on rumours not facts. What do you say to this, Leda?
Hm. Good question. Now, I think it's going to depend on your definition of "personal gain". Snape loved Lily; that much is clear. Sadly for Snape, it's also clear that Lily didn't love him back in quite the same way, although she cared very much for him and made a great effort to forgive him his resentment - probably more of an effort than most people would make in her situation.
It can't be denied that Snape's chief driving force in all of this, from the time he was a boy, was his longing for Lily. In a sense, that could be construed as personal motivation, but on the other hand, it's equally unfair to suggest that there was anything dishonest about his love. His tormented childhood put some very serious dents in his ability to express love, it's true...but beneath the scar tissue, I think he did love sincerely and selflessly.
Reduce the situation to its base level: Snape protected Harry for sixteen years, did so at considerable risk to his own life, and did so unswervingly to the very end. Placing that much importance on why he did it is, perhaps, misguided and unnecessary.
Consider a real-life example in the case of Oskar Schindler, for one. His actions led to the preservation of over one thousand Jewish people from the death camps. Should we ask ourselves what his personal motivation was? Profit would have been one; it was certainly a lot cheaper for him to use slave labour in his factory than to pay free Poles to do the same jobs....but to any one of the people he saved, or to their descendants, is the "why" as important to posterity as the "what" of it?
--- "What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil" - Friedrich Nietzsche
"V For Vendetta" Shrine
|
|
7/22/2007, 2:45 pm
|
Send Email to Leda74
Send PM to Leda74
AIM
Yahoo
Blog
|
friendlysolarflare
Detective Sergeant
Global user
Registered: 04-2006
Location: Snape's Office
Posts: 11040
Karma: 204 (+205/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
Thanks for the explanation, Leda, it really clears things up. I think I misunderstood the use of the word gain. I thought it had to do with gaining power/wealth - I never considered love as a possibility. This makes me like him even more
I like your Schindler analogy - and I agree, the "why" is not that important, the lives saved are.
Well, I have a question more for you I believe the reason why Snape acted as if he hated Harry was to hide his true objective, is that correct?
|
|
7/22/2007, 3:10 pm
|
Send Email to friendlysolarflare
|
Leda74
VEEK
Global user
Registered: 03-2006
Location: London, U.K.
Posts: 3541
Karma: 118 (+119/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
quote:
friendlysolarflare wrote:
I believe the reason why Snape acted as if he hated Harry was to hide his true objective, is that correct?
No, I don't think so. In this at least, Snape was a very flawed and bitter person - he saw James in Harry, and he carried his hatred of James over into his treatment of the boy. He wouldn't be the first person to do this.
However - and I found this moment to be almost painfully poignant - it was in the end Snape's final request to Harry to be allowed to gaze into his eyes, which were just like his mother's. Thus Snape died looking into the eyes of the woman he loved; I think he was owed that much.
*stops for sobbing break*
This is only my interpretation of events, but when Harry, in the epilogue, describes Snape as being one of the bravest men he ever knew, I think it's to this that he's referring. Putting your life on the line to defend someone you love and cherish is bravery, it's true, but what we eventually came to realise about Snape was that he'd defended Harry in spite of his dislike for the boy...which is, in a way, an even braver task than standing in harm's way for a loved one.
As I said to a friend a little while ago - Snape certainly wasn't a nice person, but he was, when the time came to choose, an honourable one.
--- "What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil" - Friedrich Nietzsche
"V For Vendetta" Shrine
|
|
7/22/2007, 3:25 pm
|
Send Email to Leda74
Send PM to Leda74
AIM
Yahoo
Blog
|
friendlysolarflare
Detective Sergeant
Global user
Registered: 04-2006
Location: Snape's Office
Posts: 11040
Karma: 204 (+205/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
quote:
Leda74 wrote:
However - and I found this moment to be almost painfully poignant - it was in the end Snape's final request to Harry to be allowed to gaze into his eyes, which were just like his mother's. Thus Snape died looking into the eyes of the woman he loved; I think he was owed that much.
Reading this brought tears to my eyes very beautifully written, Leda!
quote:
As I said to a friend a little while ago - Snape certainly wasn't a nice person, but he was, when the time came to choose, an honourable one.
You're right about that and that was what I hoped he would be. Can't wait to see the movie
|
|
7/22/2007, 3:33 pm
|
Send Email to friendlysolarflare
|
Cygnus X1
Celestial Cygnet
Global user
Registered: 07-2006
Location: State of GOOFINESS!
Posts: 2663
Karma: 84 (+85/-1)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows Discussion Thread *SPOILERS*
quote:
Leda74 wrote:
Looks like I'm the first to finish it.
I'm the second to finish here then ... I think. It would have been sooner than last night had I actually checked the snail mail on the day of release (DOH!) soooooo ... my copy sat in the mailbox for an ENTIRE DAY before I even got started. 
quote:
As Kittywife and ButMad will verify, it wasn't without considerable effort, and involved pulling not one but two all-nighters this weekend...
*nodnod* VERY hard to put down once it's in your hands.
quote:
Well. I do a fair amount of leaking at movies, but it's been a very long time since a book made me cry.
Ah - not here ... the deaths that occured in books 5 & 6 got me. Did you see the OOTP film yet Leda? Maybe it's just me - but, with that particular death scene, I felt nothing. However, Ms. Rowling had me crying my eyes out.
quote:
And this time, not once, but three times.
I'd been prepared for deaths - Rowling's own prior hints had made it clear that we'd be suffering losses - but I don't think I realised until now just how attached I had become to some of the characters, particularly Dobby. I had to put the book aside for a while to compose myself after he died Brave, sweet little Dobby...
Regarding Dobby's death ... once the blade was released, you *knew* it had to hit somebody - but, I didn't believe it was going to result in a death - *especially* sweet little Dobby. What made that even more difficult to swallow was how the entire scene was played out. Yeah, I had to put the book down at that point too. 
quote:
Hedwig's death also hit hard; maybe even a little harder for the fact that it was incidental, and seemed (unlike Dobby's sacrifice) to be so meaningless and shocking.
True - and IIRC in one of the interviews with Ms. Rowling, didn't she state something to the effect of "Harry may get another pet at some point in time"? I was expecting that - but, ah - ok, I'm not going to say whether or not he did. We can't give everything away to the ones who haven't read it yet.
quote:
On the other hand, I do recognise that this is an accurate depiction of the way deaths frequently occur in real life.
Again, true. Hedwig's death hit *very* close to home. Crazy as this may sound - that was the first time I had to put the book on the side for a while, as the manner in which she was just snatched away had dredged up four personal, extremely painful memories.
quote:
I was also, in spite of suffering another attack of the weepies, oddly glad that at least Remus and Tonks died together.
I was expecting one or the other - not both. We're apparently agreed on that as I was also glad that one was not left behind.
quote:
On the bright side, I was happy that some of my fondest wishes were realised; most notably that Dumbledore's (and my) faith in Professor Snape wasn't misplaced.
Oh DITTO on that!!! Though, she did keep us guessing up until almost the very end ... didn't she?
quote:
I'd found it very hard to reconcile what Snape did at the end of HBP with my belief that he would turn out all right in the end, but now I understand.
Regardless of what Snape did at the end of HBP - I had my doubts - she did leave a HUGE clue as to his true intent, especially when we had learned of the "conversation overheard by Hagrid". Still though, throughout most of DH - Ms. Rowling had me wondering which side of the fence our dear Professor was truly on.
quote:
Rest in peace, Professor. At least you're reunited with Lily now
Well, they *are* married in The Sims2 ... at least in my game. (See the Beam me up/Sims thread for screen shot).
On a more serious note though - once we learned the entire truth of Snape's story ... my heart was shattered. I felt that this is one of the characters she should have given a reprieve. Then again, had she allowed him to survive - I can't even begin to imagine HOW she would have relayed his story in a proper fashion. I'm certain she could have found a way around that though. ~Sigh~ and this is why Ms. Rowling is a best-selling author and I am not. 
quote:
And as for Ron and Hermione getting together.....well, I think we all saw that one coming. Nevertheless, bravo!!!
I think every reader saw the other pairing coming too.
NOT the Lupin/Tonks pairing ... the other one.
quote:
I think my two loudest "YAY!!!" moments were when Neville faced down Voldemort, and Molly Weasley's incandescent assault on Bellatrix Lestrange. Now there was someone who deserved to go out a lot harder than she did.
Hoooo yeah. Wishful thinking here but, Bellatrix deserved nothing more than *Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*
*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*
*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*
*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*
*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*
*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*
*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*
*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*Crucio*
~**AVADA KEDAVRA**~!!!
quote:
I'm also happy that Draco was - insofar as he was never actually evil, merely an odious little git - redeemed. Well, sort of redeemed, anyway. I don't doubt that he's going to continue to be a rather unpleasant, snotty person, or that his son is going to take after him, but nonetheless. I'm still glad he made it through.
I was glad to see him make it through as well - though, you have to admit, he certainly deserved more than a few slaps along the way.
quote:
Come the finish, I was feeling genuinely sorry for Narcissa's terror for her son.
Same here - however, I had NO sympathy for Lucius whatsoever, after all - it was his doing that landed his family in that situation to begin with.
quote:
One thing that I think was handled very nicely was Harry's reactions to the gradual unveiling of Dumbledore's less-than-admirable family background. I too have once been put in the position of finding out a few home truths about someone I cared for after they'd passed away.....and it's no fun. It really isn't.
That was indeed handled with great tact. I think that each and every one of us across the board has faced something of that nature ... and no, it isn't fun - nor is it fair to the person that has passed. In all fairness, if you're going to smear somebody's reputation - do it while they're still alive so they at least have the chance to defend themselves. Better yet - don't do it at all.
quote:
It was hard enough for me to cope with processing such revelations; for someone who'd been through as much as Harry, I can only try to appreciate not only the betrayal but the fear he would be going through.
I'll go a step farther than that. I can fully and *completely* understand the betrayal and fear that Harry experienced - I've been there. We'll leave it at that.
quote:
There'll be more later, when a) someone else is in a position to join the discussion,
*raises hand* 
quote:
and b) I've had a little more sleep
LOL!!! Oh, I understand that! One the book was in my hot little hands, I too went on a "reading marathon".
quote:
But until then, may I just end by saying....well done, Ms. Rowling
Very well done indeed. Though, I must confess to being a bit disappointed. She told us that ALL would be answered in the end - whereas I feel that she only left us with more questions. Then again - she may have left the final chapter open for future writing, who knows ... we can only hope. Even if it's not the "Potterverse" - I DO hope she continues to write. Should she decide to do so - I'll pre-order.
Favorite quotes anyone? Personally - my favorite was: "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU *****!"
---
"There is nothing impossible to him who will try."
~Alexander The Great~
|
|
7/25/2007, 2:37 pm
|
Send Email to Cygnus X1
Send PM to Cygnus X1
AIM
|
Add a reply
Page: 1 2
Powered by AkBBS 0.9.5b - Link to us
- Blogs
- Hall of Honour
- Chat
Click here to get your own free message board
|
You are not logged in (login)
Board's time is: 11/25/2009, 4:31 pm
|
|
|
