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LadyVendetta
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
You might want to try this out for parallel books (Shakespearean language on one side and regular language on the other)....
ROMEO AND JULIET
This is based on a series of books for those who want to understand Shakespeare. There are others, I think, like Macbeth that does the same thing. I don't have a copy of this personally, but I think this might help you.
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6/11/2006, 5:10 pm
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pwsull
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
Here are a couple of sources of Shakespeare scholarly discussion I came up with, just off the top of my head:
The "Norton Critical Editions" are generally considered "scholarly" and when I was in college (ancient history now) they were used by many university professors as the text for English Literature courses. In addition to the text they contain critical essays and analysis exploring issues metaphorical, symbolic, cultural, societal, etc....raised by the story and author. These are the currently available Shakespeare plays (unfortunately no Richard III or Twelth Night):
Shakespeare, William
Hamlet
Second Edition
Cyrus Hoy (Ed.)
0-393-95663-6 • paper • 1992
Shakespeare, William
1 Henry IV
Third Edition
Gordon McMullan (Ed.)
0-393-97931-8 • paper • 2002
Shakespeare, William
Macbeth
Robert S. Miola (Ed.)
0-393-97786-2 • paper • 2003
Shakespeare, William
The Merchant of Venice
Leah S. Marcus (Ed.)
0-393-92529-3 • paper • 2005
Shakespeare, William
Othello
Edward Pechter (Ed.)
0-393-97615-7 • paper • 2003
Shakespeare, William
The Tempest
Peter Hulme and William H. Sherman (Eds.)
0-393-97819-2 • paper • 2003
Considered much less "scholarly" (and often used by students to write "less than original" papers) are the Cliffs Notes.
Looks to me like most of the Bard's plays are represented in their catalog. Even though Cliffs Notes are derided, they are not without some merit: they can be a "down and dirty" way to get the gist of a work of literature if you are totally lost (or haven't read the book at all for a course and have a a paper due the next day). Cliffs Notes do provide an explanation of the plot, themes, metaphors, symbols, and translation of archaic or esoteric text and vocabulary.
So....Movie versions.
I agree with some of the other posters here that the attempts to "modernize" the plays by setting them in the present, or recent past while retaining the original text usually comes across as at best hokey and at worst nauseating. I haven't seen the Hamlets, but my favorite Shakespeare films are:
Kenneth Branagh's Henry V (absolutely wonderful and patriotically awe inspiring), and
Franco Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet (lushly romantic). Both films are staged in the time and place in which they were originally set. I haven't had the patience to sit down and watch all of
Ian McKellan's turn at Richard III, but the bits I have caught look truly excellent even though it is set in an alternative history, 1930's fascist England.
Lord Laurence Olivier's 1944 Henry V is also worth a viewing even though it was conceived as a patriotism piece to boost British troop morale during WWII.
Just as an aside, many years ago when I was a high school student, the local repertory company staged Macbeth. I ended up seeing it three times. As I recall a young Blythe Danner (Gwyneth Paltrow's mother) played Lady Macbeth (she was a member of that repertory company for a year or two when she was just starting her career). One of my many instances of one or two degrees of separation with celebrity. 
Bard On!
P
Last edited by pwsull, 6/12/2006, 9:11 am
--- 
"Perily, this pichyssoise of perbiage peers most perbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me"...... P |
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6/12/2006, 8:45 am
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ButMadNNW
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
(When I went to submit my response to alexandra, the Daily Backup prevented me [2:15am board time]. I had no business being up that late anyway, so I emailed the post to myself so I wouldn't have to do it again.  )
quote:
alexandra123 wrote:
What i really wanted to know is if you Shakespeare specialists know of some very good book, like the bible of the shakespeare analysis or something...
I haven't hardly cracked the spine of this book, so can't really offer much of an opinion on it, but it's something my university Shakespeare professor made us buy: Shakespeare A to Z - "the essential reference to his plays, his poems, his life and times, and more."
It's got entries on characters (both real and fictional, important and minor), places, and synopses of the plays. And more! *feeling like a commercial announcer* 
You might possibly find it helpful.
Side note of trivia - Will's granddaughter married a man who shared my last name! But they died childless. That said, it is a pretty common last name, so the chance of any connection there is pretty slim. 
quote:
pwsull wrote:
Considered much less "scholarly" (and often used by students to write "less than original" papers) are the Cliffs Notes.
*cringes and hisses like a vampire confronted with a cross*
 I have actually never even picked up a Cliffs Notes booklet for anything, let alone read one. I realize they can be handy references for the honest scholar, but far too often, they're used for cheating.
Oh dear... I feel a rant coming on:
Although here and now in the Internet Age, taking the time to "do the work" of plagiarizing the Cliff Notes still kind of sort of beats just downloading someone else's old report. I had to do a research paper on Conrad's Heart of Darkness and while I was trying to find references for it, my Internet search kept turning up results that were nothing more than paper mills - some sites, you tell them what you need a paper on, pay a fee, and they'll write it for you. Another site offered to buy my old "A" papers so they could turn around and sell them to someone else. I swear, the lengths people will go to to avoid working - it'd be less trouble just to write the paper.
*end rant*
pwsull, do sit down and watch Richard III when you can; it's worth it. There's a certain enjoyable... anachronistic irony(?) in seeing Richard crying for "a horse, a horse!" when his Jeep has overturned.
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6/12/2006, 9:07 am
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alexandra123
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
LadyV, pwsull, ButMad  thank you for your patience to educate a bard-famished (that didn't sound right, did it?.....) young soul!!
quote:
pwsull said:
In addition to the text they contain critical essays and analysis exploring issues metaphorical, symbolic, cultural, societal, etc....raised by the story and author.
Yes!!!!! That's it!
quote:
The "Norton Critical Editions" are generally considered "scholarly" and when I was in college
Oh! And they have a whole bunch of other books like pride and prejudice, faust, utopia and poets !!!!!!!! Oh pwsull  You've just become responsible for the growing of my books-to-read pile!!!!
*gets out the credit card and logs on to amazon.co.uk (closer to home, less shipping fee)*
quote:
Considered much less "scholarly" (and often used by students to write "less than original" papers) are the Cliffs Notes.
Oh! On their website we can read some of the books for free!!!! Cool
Yeah, we have them here too, not the cliffs notes, but something similar. I have to admit I, once (or twice...........  ) had to buy some of those little magial books to help me with some boring Portuguese books we had to read at school. Other books were actually quite interesting, but i still used the notes books to get a better understanding of the story. When I really like a story, I love to delve it in ad nauseum!  oh, just like I do about V!!!  
ButMadNNW: Shakespeare A to Z sounds interesting!!!
*adds to the list*
quote:
*cringes and hisses like a vampire confronted with a cross*
quote:
some sites, you tell them what you need a paper on, pay a fee, and they'll write it for you. Another site offered to buy my old "A" papers so they could turn around and sell them to someone else. I swear, the lengths people will go to to avoid working
What fools these mortals be?  Well, if it weren't on the net, i'm sure someone would make a living out of it anyway the old traditional fashioned way, so...
So many books, so little time...
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6/13/2006, 3:54 am
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pwsull
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
Alexandra....
You wrote:quote:
LadyV, pwsull, ButMad thank you for your patience to educate a bard-famished (that didn't sound right, did it?.....) young soul!!
And you are entirely welcome! I hope you find our feeble attempts to provide you with material helpful.
I would just like to say that I find the interest and English language skills of yourself and other "English as a second language" members of this forum awe inspiring! As someone who struggles to attain some facility with another language (French), and is continuously embarassed by his rudimentary skills after years of study and hard work, the ease and fluency with which you communicate totally blows me away! On top of that, your enthusiasm for mastering Shakespeare, who is beyond the skills of most native English speakers, takes my admiration to the stratosphere.
It is great to have you here Alexandra (and FriendlySolarflare, and all the other ESL members of this club of slightly insane Veeks).
P
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"Perily, this pichyssoise of perbiage peers most perbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me"...... P |
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6/13/2006, 6:58 am
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Willow7302
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
quote:
bard-famished
YES! THIS is what I have been, and dint realize it. Yet another gift from V...
I had quite an infatuation with Hamlet in college, but that was years ago, and , sadly, November the Fifth is a day no longer remembered... 
oops! I am in late stage obsession, and now, with access to the "chinese gift" I am spouting V4V dialog spontaneously all the time. PW, diagnosis, please?!?
"3"
so this past weekend, at the beach with Vixen Tamlin, we sat overlooking the sea and read MacBeth aloud to one another.
already my speech and writing are affected, enhanced!
So now, I can feast on Bardinage to my heart's content.
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V: "There's no certainty - only opportunity."
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6/13/2006, 9:35 am
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Willow7302
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
today's Washington Post has an intriguing story about MacBeth:
Macbeth Curse?
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V: "There's no certainty - only opportunity."
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6/13/2006, 9:37 am
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pwsull
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
And for a moment, given that we discuss Shakespeare, and that one of my favorite movie versions of a Bard play is Henry V, and that I enjoy studying French, I will digress for one moment and mention a favorite scene or two.
Everyone of course loves the emotionaly stirring, patriotic St Crispin's day speech, delivered by Henry on the eve of the Battle of Agincourt. It is the signature speech of the play and the one everyone remembers fondly.
But another scene that the Bard crafted with great skill is at the end of the play when Henry is courting the French Princess Catherine (played by Emma Thompson in the film). Henry speaks no French and Catherine no English with touching and amusing results. Also earlier, in the third act, Catherine and her maid are discussing English-French vocabulary, and specificaly body parts...truly a hilarious scene for students of language...and methinks these are all instances in which Will was using the language of the French and their attempts at speaking English to make fun of them.
End of Shakespeare digression.
So why I ask you were there not any quotes from Henry V in V's DVD/BTN speech to the people? Some patriotic rabble rousing a la Shakespeare?
P
Last edited by pwsull, 6/13/2006, 12:21 pm
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"Perily, this pichyssoise of perbiage peers most perbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me"...... P |
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6/13/2006, 9:43 am
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alexandra123
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
quote:
It is great to have you here Alexandra
oh pwsull it's great to be here among people who won't look at me funny when i say I like to read Shakespeare... in Portugal we have a few classical authors and poets which I really love to read too, and sometimes I'm almost ashamed to admit to it!... Ah, stupid people!
Beginning of Portuguese literature rant----------------------
One of my favourites authors, Eça de Queirós, quote:
wikipedia quote:
is considered to be the greatest Portuguese writer in the realist style, and one of the great figures of European 19th century fiction. Zola considered him to be far greater than Flaubert.  Others rank him with ****ens, Balzac and Tolstoy.
I don't know if anyone saw the recent Mexican movie "The Crime of Father Amaro", (about a priest who has a relationship with a woman, she has his baby, he proposes to kill the baby etc etc, the church banned the book for quite a while) it was a movie adaptation of one of his novels.
He wrote a Portuguese classic "Os Maias" which can be translated to "The Maias". The story of 3 generations of the Maia family, it's just great! Pwsull you would've liked it, it has an impossible romance betweet a man and a woman, as impossible as it gets (they're brother and sister and discover that only after their relationship has been consumated). I guess that's why I like it too... It's the greatest novel, full of those little innuendos, metaphors, coincidences through which fate works, representative characters, foretelling of future events by the description of some things.... you know, those little things we like to pick up in the story and say "is the author telling me something here?....".
The male character is a tid bit like Newland Archer in his inability to take his own destiny in his hands. He was the first to discover that they are brother and sister and he goes to her to tell her, but he can't, he can't find the courage, he can't resist her temptation. He then makes love to her once more, now fully conscious of the fact... Oh.. it get's me everytime!
Oh my........ ending the Portuguese literature rant here.
Now, I checked out Henry's St Crispin's Day speech and... wow!!! I just love it in his plays the parts when the words just roll out of your tongue like.... honey or something, so smooth, so right, almost like singing!
I was trying to pick my favourite part, but I'm afraid I'd end up pasting the whole speech in here!
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.
[...] O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.
And the ending is just amazing...
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
just one thing *puts hand in the air to ask question*
the word ne'er in be he ne'er so vile, what does that mean exactly? Never? Neither?...
pwsull, which part do you think would be suitted to quote in V's speech?... Maybe this last part, on the end of his speech where he calls to everyone to go to the gates of Parliament on nov 5th? Or maybe Evey could have said it to Finch on the roof in the end...
And when Henry is courting the French princess:
KING HENRY V: (...) Do you like me, Kate?
KATHARINE: Pardonnez-moi, I cannot tell vat is 'like me.'
KING HENRY V: An angel is like you, Kate, and you are like an angel.
lol that's so sweet!!! I love it when men do that double meaning thing
quote:
End of Shakespeare digression.
Oh by all means, digress all you want!!!!
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6/13/2006, 2:18 pm
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pwsull
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Re: And What Exactly Does All That Shakespeare in V Mean?
Alexandra:
Check this out: Kenneth Branagh as Henry V doing the St Crispin's Day Speech
If you want to hear a great version of the speech. Hearing that always bring tears to my eyes and makes me want to ride into Agincourt with Harry to fight the French. How did Shakespeare do that?!?!?!
More later.
P
PS: ne'er is never.
Last edited by pwsull, 6/13/2006, 3:19 pm
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"Perily, this pichyssoise of perbiage peers most perbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me"...... P |
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6/13/2006, 2:33 pm
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