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freedom4ever
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
quote:
Cyg wrote:
Speaking of public smoking bans, restaurant owners here are losing LOADS of business due to our new statewide ban. A few have had to close their doors. They owners who have not been forced out of business are *screaming* about the ban, and begging the state to allow for smoking sections - but nobody is listening.
In Scotland, where the ban has been in place for some time already, the combined smell of sweat and alcohol without cigarette smoke is apparently becoming so bad, they are having to use copious amounts of air freshener!
I too cannot understand why there is not room for both smoking and non smoking bars. Surely a bar in which there are only smokers will hurt no-body except the smokers? Well, here's a news flash - We already know the dangers of smoking and as adults, choose to do it anyway. That is our right as human beings living in a civilised society. A total ban is an infringement of our civil liberties.
Just as non smokers have the right to a smoke free environment, smokers too, have the right to a smoky one if they choose. Why is it ok by our governments for people to harm themselves with alcohol, but not cigarettes?
And another thing! Every year I regularly have to drive past various works plants and power stations, all of which are emitting huge amounts of C02 and other crap, because we are not efficient enough to research alternative, environmentally sound power sources. But that's ok 'cos the government say so. 
Who do they think got us addicted to smoking in the first place?! Cigarette companies have been known in the past as making huge cash donations to various political parties and had, until recently, been responsible for huge amounts of sponsorship in sport, business and elsewhere. Our governments allowed this to go on for ages, happily sitting back and raking in the extortionate tax on a pack of fags. They did it long enough for us all to think smoking was cool and ok and get addicted, but now it's not ok? WTF?!
OK, I'm done. For now! 
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7/13/2007, 11:55 pm
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Cygnus X1
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
quote:
freedom4ever wrote:
We already know the dangers of smoking and as adults, choose to do it anyway. That is our right as human beings living in a civilised society. A total ban is an infringement of our civil liberties.
F4E ... it seems you've forced me to open up another can of worms in regard to the smoking bans. I don't know about everywhere else this has taken place but here, in Louisiana - we weren't even given the opportunity TO VOTE ON IT!!! Our so-called "leaders" had simply taken the matter into their own hands and decided what is "best" for us. THAT - in and of itself is an infringement of our civil liberties.
In addition to this, if we're NOT allowed to smoke in certain public places ... the tax on cigarettes should be removed. Oh, yes, of course - the gooberment can't do that, they'd lose too much money. Cigarettes & liquor fall under the "luxury tax" . Well, answer me this - how in GODS NAME can these be considered luxury items if BOTH are *highly* addictive and are directly responsible for the deaths of countless people worldwide every single year?! What's so luxurious about death by cancer, cirrhosis or a drunk driver?!
 *end rant*
---
"There is nothing impossible to him who will try."
~Alexander The Great~
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7/18/2007, 7:00 pm
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ButMadNNW
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
Want to get back at the greedy government officials and tobacco companies? - quit!  Their financial future is in your hands.
I'm just sayin'. 
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7/18/2007, 9:52 pm
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freedom4ever
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
quote:
Cyg wrote:
F4E ... it seems you've forced me to open up another can of worms in regard to the smoking bans. I don't know about everywhere else this has taken place but here, in Louisiana - we weren't even given the opportunity TO VOTE ON IT!!! Our so-called "leaders" had simply taken the matter into their own hands and decided what is "best" for us. THAT - in and of itself is an infringement of our civil liberties.
VOTE ON IT?!  No we didn't get that option either. I don't remember the last time we were asked anything. Our government have been ignoring the general public for years. 100's of thousands of people took to the streets of London to oppose the Iraq war, but they blatently ignored us.
I regulalry send emails to many world leaders, Bush and Blair mainly to oppose various things. I have NEVER had a response of any kind. Not even from a representative. Can any of them count on my vote at the next election? Can they bollox!
quote:
In addition to this, if we're NOT allowed to smoke in certain public places ... the tax on cigarettes should be removed. Oh, yes, of course - the gooberment can't do that, they'd lose too much money. Cigarettes & liquor fall under the "luxury tax" . Well, answer me this - how in GODS NAME can these be considered luxury items if BOTH are *highly* addictive and are directly responsible for the deaths of countless people worldwide every single year?! What's so luxurious about death by cancer, cirrhosis or a drunk driver?!
You're right, it's outragous.
What really gets my goat is that if/when I get lung cancer/ bronchitis or any other hideous smoking related illness, the national health service can refuse me treatment. Do they have any idea how much i have contributed to the nhs and other services thru the tax I pay on cigarettes?! 
quote:
ButMad wrote:
Want to get back at the greedy government officials and tobacco companies? - quit! Their financial future is in your hands.
I have smoked 20 a day since I was twelve. I am doomed. Any tips greatfully received as I would like nothing more than to give up, but I seem unable. Also, I don't want to be forced into giving up 'cos there's no where to smoke anymore. If I give up I wanna do it for me not the tossy government. Besides, they'll just tax something else instead. It's only a matter of time before they legalise cannabis at which point it will be the same deal, you can buy it legally but at twice the price 'cos of the tax it will incur as a 'luxury item'.
I'm gonna build my own 'enclosed space' (kinda like the tardis I suppose) it will not be open to the public, I shall park it where I please and smoke my head off. Cyg, there will be a room in my tardis with your name on the door - help yourself!
They can take my enclosed spaces, but they'll never take my freedom! 
Last edited by freedom4ever, 7/19/2007, 4:55 am
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7/19/2007, 3:36 am
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Leda74
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
quote:
freedom4ever wrote:
What really gets my goat is that if/when I get lung cancer/ bronchitis or any other hideous smoking related illness, the national health service can refuse me treatment.
What I would like to see is this. Clearly the NHS policy of playing the blame game is going to have to be applied across the board, so here's what I suggest. Anyone whose requirement for medical intervention stems in any way whatsoever from their own actions shall be denied.
For a start, we can shut down all maternity wards - most pregnant women didn't get that way involuntarily, after all. And while we're on the subject of sex, no more treatments for STDs unless they resulted from rape. No treatment for drug users, either, by the way.
Let's face facts. The majority of people needing medical treatment bear at least some responsibility for their condition, be it something they did or something they didn't do.
--- "What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil" - Friedrich Nietzsche
"V For Vendetta" Shrine
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7/19/2007, 9:50 am
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freedom4ever
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
quote:
Leda wrote:
What I would like to see is this. Clearly the NHS policy of playing the blame game is going to have to be applied across the board, so here's what I suggest. Anyone whose requirement for medical intervention stems in any way whatsoever from their own actions shall be denied.
For a start, we can shut down all maternity wards - most pregnant women didn't get that way involuntarily, after all. And while we're on the subject of sex, no more treatments for STDs unless they resulted from rape. No treatment for drug users, either, by the way.
I agree that whatever is decided must be applied across the board. What pisses me of is the singling out of smokers. I think it would be hard to clarify though. I think if all the people in Britain who were overweight were refused medical treatment, then our population would surely diminish.
There are also more indirect ways of harming yourself, how could this be clarified? eg, You have an occupation which puts repetitive strain on part of your body, your own fault but should you be able to expect medical treatment? I can't help thinking that everybody contributes to their own demise in some way, with stress, alcohol, too much salt, too much sugar, an eating disorder a self harmer, whatever. There'd be noone left if all of them were to be refused treatment! 
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7/19/2007, 10:25 am
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ButMadNNW
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
quote:
freedom4ever wrote:
quote:
ButMad wrote:
Want to get back at the greedy government officials and tobacco companies? - quit! Their financial future is in your hands.
I have smoked 20 a day since I was twelve. I am doomed.
I refuse to believe that. I refuse to believe anyone is "doomed."  I personally would love to see all our smoking Vixens "grow out of smoking" and get their health and money back from the tobacco companies. (I love all you gals and would like to keep you around!) But all I can do is offer hope and support; I can't make you do anything.
A pair of psychologists I've come to really admire draw a parallel between smoking and people dying for a cause because of their beliefs - the problem there, of course, is that smokers are dying for the cause of the tobacco giants' ever-expanding wallets, usually because of beliefs that came from other people. And like Cyg said, there's nothing glamorous about being a tobacco martyr.
As an example, my paternal grandfather started smoking somewhere between the ages of 6 and 8 (I can never remember). I had trouble being around him, because he and his personal space (his clothes, the living room, etc.) had a constant stink of smoke. And hacking coughs coming from your grandfather are disturbing sounds to a young kid. He lived into his 80s, I believe, but by the last few months, his health care providers had him on 100% oxygen and couldn't keep his blood oxygen levels up. He almost literally drowned in his own lungs.
But you know the dangers - you don't need me to tell you.
quote:
Any tips greatfully received as I would like nothing more than to give up, but I seem unable.
(Remember, you asked for it.... )
I don't know what methods you've used in your attempts, but I would hazard a guess that the reason you "seem unable" to quit is that you've only been working on the conscious level. Cold turkey, patches, gum... Those are conscious efforts to quit. Working on the unconscious level to reprogram one's instincts and habitual responses is much more effective for lasting change - and the change comes easier! (I speak from experience, though not smoking experience.)
You may not have seen the link I posted on the previous page. I'll repost it here. The link leads to an article on the psychology of smoking. I found it very interesting, and you might find it helpful or at least an interesting read.
This link might not work, but if it does, you can get an interesting audio program on the same topic (the psychology of addiction), from the same source: Beating addictions and smoking (if the link doesn't work, let me know and I'll email it to you from home if you want to hear it, or figure out a way to host it online) - and as a bonus, the speaker has the most gorgeous Scot accent I've ever heard!
quote:
Also, I don't want to be forced into giving up 'cos there's no where to smoke anymore. If I give up I wanna do it for me not the tossy government.
Hon, you just said you "would like nothing more than to give up". By all means, do NOT quit for the government! Really, no one can force you to change. But I'm hearing from you that you're ready to move on; you've outgrown the habit and are tired of laying down your life for the tobacco profit cause. THAT is why you quit - for yourself, for your health, for your wallet. To regain control over that part of your life.
I'm not particularly happy that all my links are going back to the same source, but when you've got a good source, that happens.  Help with quitting - the kind of help I talked about above, that works on an unconscious level - can be found here. (For the record, I have several of their programs, and these guys know what they're doing. I've found them to be extremely helpful. They even have a 90-day money-back guarantee!)
quote:
Besides, they'll just tax something else instead.
"There is nothing certain in life but death and taxes" (and change).
quote:
They can take my enclosed spaces, but they'll never take my freedom!
The government can't take your freedom. The tobacco company already laid claim to it. 
Okay, I've said my piece and offered my help. Do with it what you will. And remember that anything I've said comes from caring and concern.
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7/19/2007, 12:50 pm
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freedom4ever
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
ButMad, I have just opened your links and intend to have a good read - thank you.
quote:
Okay, I've said my piece and offered my help. Do with it what you will. And remember that anything I've said comes from caring and concern.
Am I that scary?! Did you think I would react badly to what you said?! I feel I know you well enough now to know that you always act with caring and concern.
Many wise words ButMad, I have read and listened to it all and thank you for taking the time. I haven't made any definate decisions about giving up or not yet, but at the beginning of the year I said '07 was the year to give up. (At the time I had an awful hacking smokers cough, for the first time I thought I was about to develope pneumonia - Very scary) Now of course I don't have the cough. I just have to try and keep in mind how bad it was and how I never want to go there again!
I'll keep you posted, but I am feeling like I might be ready for another attempt. There's just something I have to get out of my system first - Gonna stroll up Downing Street, avec fag!
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7/20/2007, 3:45 am
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ButMadNNW
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
quote:
freedom4ever wrote:
ButMad, I have just opened your links and intend to have a good read - thank you.
I'm glad. You're very welcome. I should offer the caveat that I'm not a psychologist myself - just a really interested layperson with a penchant for obsessive research.
quote:
quote:
Okay, I've said my piece and offered my help. Do with it what you will. And remember that anything I've said comes from caring and concern.
Am I that scary?! Did you think I would react badly to what you said?!
No. But I've had - or tried to have - similar conversations with smokers in the past (although I'm feeling "better equipped" these days), and I know how resistant some smokers can be to the idea of change (quitting). So my saying that was partly a reaction to those experiences and partly for anyone else reading the post who might "react badly."
quote:
I feel I know you well enough now to know that you always act with caring and concern.
Many wise words ButMad,
 To be fair, most of the credit for the wise words goes to Uncommon Knowledge - I just restated them.
quote:
I have read and listened to it all and thank you for taking the time.
Welcome.  I hope you find it helpful/inspiring.
Check your email.
quote:
I'll keep you posted
Please do. Let me know how you get on with it.
quote:
but I am feeling like I might be ready for another attempt.
First thing, think of it as being "ready to succeed."
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7/21/2007, 3:00 am
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freedom4ever
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Re: Secondhand smoke and pets
That was very interesting reading ButMad. Although I don't think the article is unflawed, I am definately a classic case of a 'rebellious smoker'!
Rest assured, I never get defensive about my habit. I know it is a stupid habit, there's no point denying it! I know what you mean though, I have met smokers on the defensive side who are not prepared to talk about, I guess these people just aren't ready to think about giving up.
quote:
First thing, think of it as being "ready to succeed."
I like that!
Only one cigarette so far this morning, (Usually had at least 7 by 11am!) and it really wasn't that satisfying! Had breakfast instead this morning which was a weird sensation. You may think that sounds ridiculous, but I have lived on black coffee and fags for breakfast the last 15 years! - Oh God, I'm gonna get really fat aren't I ?!
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7/21/2007, 3:22 am
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