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Bohwea
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Re: Could you forgive V?
By the way Bailey, I've 'applauded' you for this post because it was such a bloody good one. 
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4/4/2006, 1:05 am
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VeltheAngel
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Re: Could you forgive V?
Short answer: Yes
To be more in depth:
In case you couldn't tell already, I'm a weird, messed up girl. I've been through boot-camp (a sort of self imposed 'torture' as it were), and found (to quote another movie) "the courage of my convictions". Now, while I won't in the least try to recommend, condone, or otherwise convince anyone what V did was the right way to do things, I will express my view point. I cannot fathom nor liken what V did (in the physical sense) to your average 'vanilla' S&M experience such as are commonly read about in naughty websites and books, I will say that the emotional experience of a rather heavy session can be one of the most liberating after-the-fact experiences one can have. It's something you fight with, push back against, struggle with the whole way through and, even though you know you can put a stop to it at any time, your convictions, sense of loyalty, will to please, something pushes you through the ordeal and you come out of it, knowing more about yourself, what you can tolerate, knowing your boundaries, and finding yourself more and more willing to try a new experience, perhaps one that did frighten you before hand.
My only gruff with V would be that I didn't get the pre-requisite 'cuddle time' to cool down from the whole thing teehee
--- "What looks so strong, so delicate" -Korn
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4/4/2006, 3:56 am
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Bohwea
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Re: Could you forgive V?
Vel, I completely agree with you - in part.
I think that yes, a self-imposed period of harsh rules and punishing work can work wonders; and if someone knows how to do it properly they can break you and reform you into something better, if they bring out your inner essence and the best you can be - not shape you into what they want you to be.
But that's not the same as torture. Being taken, imprisoned, humiliated and tortured without knowing what's going to happen, without having any escape, without even knowing why it's happening. When you genuinely think your life is going to end soon.
It's not the same.
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4/4/2006, 5:59 am
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VeltheAngel
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Re: Could you forgive V?
I know what you mean Bo. I didn't really intend to compare them quite so litterally as it seems I did in my first post. I was speaking more along the emotional experience and yes, I can agree that an unwilling imposition of such things could very well be enough to shatter not only the psyche but even so far as the self-identity of an individual. Like I said, it was a very general comparison and wasn't intended to condone the actions in and of themselves. Actual torture is quite a horrific experience (Yes, I do know about it after a fashion and find I have no taste for it myself). I do apologize for the confusion, I should start thinking more about what I say instead of feeling my way through a post >.<
--- "What looks so strong, so delicate" -Korn
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4/4/2006, 6:10 am
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Sultana
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Re: Could you forgive V?
I've been thinking on and off about this ever since the first time I saw the movie.
I'm now going to ramble...hopefully there will be something conerent below...
Would I be able to forgive him? I don't know. I hold grudges for a loong time--and torture--that's beyond what anyone should have to endure. I don't think I could. But, I guess it also depends. I don't live under Sutler's government. Perhaps if I lived under a regime that was similar, I could understand....or maybe not..
In the movie/GN, I know what he's trying to achieve with Evey--and as a storyline it's quite the twist. And, I think, in the end, Evey did become an even stronger person, because she found it within her to forgive him. He was forged--or born--by fire, and she was forged--or born--by water. Water can put out fire. That makes her even stronger than V in some sense. I think he realized this. He was never able to forgive his captors--thus killing them (even Delia)--Evey forgave hers.
I wonder if V could ever forgive himself though for what he did. Probably not, because he saw in Evey what he could not find in himself.
He must have been angry with her, when she betrayed him with the bishop, so I wonder if a part of the torture was because of what she did. (No excuse, obviously, just something I thought about). We know Evey was scared all the time. He wanted to free her of the fear. But, since he's a touch unstable anyway, he must have thought that the only way to 'help' someone would be to have them go through what he went through...he didn't know any other way, and, hey it worked for him, why not others?
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4/4/2006, 7:29 am
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depphead12
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Re: Could you forgive V?
Am I missing something ? How did Evey betray V with the Bishop ? My understanding was that she told the Bishop that there was someone coming to kill him to buy time so V could burst in and take over. She and V would have planned it that way. Now the only way she might have betrayed V was by taking off and not leaving with him. When she runs he says' Evey ! "Remember he said she had to stay with him for a year ( until nov. 5 ) because he could not take the chance of them finding her, torturing her and finding out about the color of the stone of his home and that it was underground. He said "that would be enough for a clever man".
What do you think, ladies ?
Michelle 
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4/4/2006, 10:30 pm
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Sultana
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Re: Could you forgive V?
quote:
depphead12 wrote:
Am I missing something ? How did Evey betray V with the Bishop ? My understanding was that she told the Bishop that there was someone coming to kill him to buy time so V could burst in and take over. She and V would have planned it that way. Now the only way she might have betrayed V was by taking off and not leaving with him. When she runs he says' Evey ! "Remember he said she had to stay with him for a year ( until nov. 5 ) because he could not take the chance of them finding her, torturing her and finding out about the color of the stone of his home and that it was underground. He said "that would be enough for a clever man".
What do you think, ladies ?
Michelle
It wasn't planned between Evey and V that she was to tell the Bishop. She did that all on her own because she was planning to escape from V at some time. V was surprised at her telling the Bishop. He had a quizzical look on his face--well okay not face, but the body language suggested he was taken aback that Evey had betrayed him.
Remember the scene right before Evey told V about her life? We get a shot of Gordon's address, and she says to herself "You can do this" her wheels were already turning to plan her escape.
Last edited by Sultana, 4/5/2006, 8:12 am
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4/5/2006, 8:11 am
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EowynElayne
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Re: Could you forgive V?
I had this discussion with my roommates... we unanimously agreed we try to kill him, or at least hit him a few times before collapsing from anger and grief over our missing hair. I'd probably be pissed at him for a good long time, until realizing that living without fear is a great, great thing.
I'd probably feel awful for him once I found out what he went through in the past, like Sultana was saying, and only then, maybe, forgive him. That would be tough though, the guy deprived her of every single thing that makes her a human, except for maybe hope (?) which is what he wanted to do... oh. I've gone and talked myself into a circle. Wow.
I come to realize more and more everytime I talk about it that this is a really well planned story
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4/5/2006, 1:42 pm
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Biscom
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Re: Could you forgive V?
Yes I could becuase I don't want to hate him. I'd love him despite the torture.
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8/31/2006, 10:08 am
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Twiggyette
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Re: Could you forgive V?
The saddest thing is, the torture I could probably/possibly (eventually) understand one day. But the hair? Heeeeeeell no. I last had it cut when I was about 11 or 12, and I cried for days, having lost my shield to the world.
Now its fairly long (almost to waist) and it's such a part of my identity that I would have really "lost it" (no pun intended) when it was shaved off.
To find out who'd done it, well, there would be violence.
"Remember what you said about JUSTICE, V? Violence can be used for good, right?"
*V ducks incoming sharp objects and anvils*
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8/31/2006, 12:09 pm
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