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venikx
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Georgia parks

I felt that I ought to share the response that I recently got from a woman in a position of authority at a nearby Georgia state park.....


-------------------------------------
Me: What are the park rules and the views of park officials on women being shirtless in the park?

Park official: WE DO NOT ALLOW THIS IN ANY GEORGIA STATE PARK!
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personally, I found her response to be rather rude as well as short...but on that same note if I went about asking the wrong way then constructive criticism would be nice. :-D

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~ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. --Albert Einstien ~

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7/3/2009, 2:04 pm Send Email to venikx   Send PM to venikx
 
PghTFguy
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Re: Georgia parks

I would have then paused, smiled, and then asked, "You appear offended by the question, but I am serious. Could I have the official position on this, in writing?"

I really do not know Georgia's laws, or whether their Parks system has an applicable layer of rules and regulations on top of that, but that's what this forum is about: Just what ARE the rules, really?
7/4/2009, 9:37 am Send Email to PghTFguy   Send PM to PghTFguy
 
pc44
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Re: Georgia parks


You also want to know the penalty. It may simply be a $25 fine. Or draconian.
7/4/2009, 12:51 pm Send Email to pc44   Send PM to pc44
 
venikx
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Re: Georgia parks

Actually that conversation was quoted straight from the email(which I now realize that I didn't state that originally that it was an email, sorry) and I responded to it asking for more details but I never got an answer.

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~ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. --Albert Einstien ~

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7/5/2009, 8:34 am Send Email to venikx   Send PM to venikx
 
venikx
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Re: Georgia parks

I got two more responses from the park authorities

this was the email from the same woman in response to my asking why it was not allowed:

We are Georgia State Parks that allow families to come and enjoy their stay. We are NOT a Nuditist Colony! You need to look else where for your requirments of enjoyment!
--------------------------------------------
this one was an email from a man in HR:

Normally, we do not respond to anonymous e-mails since we cannot determine the seriousness of the inquiry. The short answer to your question is that women being shirtless in a state park violates the Public Indecency Law 16-6-8 in the Georgia. Your previous question on why men can go shirtless on a Georgia State Park is that men going shirtless in a state park does not violate the Public Indecency Law 16-6-8 in Georgia.
       if you would like to speak to me directly, my telephone number is ***-***-****.
Thanks for your interest in Georgia State Parks and Historic Sites
-----------------------------
here is the law in question:

GEORGIA CODE
Copyright 2008 by The State of Georgia
All rights reserved.

*** Current through the 2008 Regular Session ***

TITLE 16. CRIMES AND OFFENSES
CHAPTER 6. SEXUAL OFFENSES

O.C.G.A. § 16-6-8 (2008)


§ 16-6-8. Public indecency


   (a) A person commits the offense of public indecency when he or she performs any of the following acts in a public place:

   (1) An act of sexual intercourse;

   (2) A lewd exposure of the sexual organs;

   (3) A lewd appearance in a state of partial or complete nudity; or

   (4) A lewd caress or indecent fondling of the body of another person.

(b) A person convicted of the offense of public indecency as provided in subsection (a) of this Code section shall be punished as for a misdemeanor except as provided in subsection (c) of this Code section.

(c) Upon a third or subsequent conviction for public indecency for the violation of paragraph (2), (3), or (4) of subsection (a) of this Code section, a person shall be guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than five years.

(d) For the purposes of this Code section only, "public place" shall include jails and penal and correctional institutions of the state and its political subdivisions.

(e) This Code section shall be cumulative to and shall not prohibit the enactment of any other general and local laws, rules, and regulations of state and local authorities or agencies and local ordinances prohibiting such activities which are more restrictive than this Code section.

HISTORY: Laws 1833, Cobb's 1851 Digest, p. 815; Code 1863, § 4420; Ga. L. 1865-66, p. 233, § 2; Code 1868, § 4461; Code 1873, § 4535; Code 1882, § 4535; Penal Code 1895, § 390; Penal Code 1910, § 381; Code 1933, § 26-6101; Code 1933, § 26-2011, enacted by Ga. L. 1968, p. 1249, § 1; Ga. L. 1991, p. 966, § 1; Ga. L. 1992, p. 6, § 16; Ga. L. 1996, p. 312, § 1; Ga. L. 1996, p. 354, § 1.


---
~ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. --Albert Einstien ~

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7/6/2009, 12:18 pm Send Email to venikx   Send PM to venikx
 
ChuckFromSanO
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Re: Georgia parks

Ah! Here we go! Venikx, you have forced the Georgia Parks Dept to disclose the fact that they have no leg to stand on. New York State and California both make a clear distinction between "nudity" and "lewd conduct." This is how the women of New York State won the right to be topfree anywhere a man can be.

The term, "lewd," is the key that can open the door to Georgia State Parks for women to enjoy the same topfreedom as men. "Lewd" is the intentional directing of attention to the genital organs for the purposes of shock to achieve self-gratification. In the absence of proven intent, the Georgia State Parks code as written absolutely does not apply to simple, non-sexual topfreedom of a woman. (Or for that matter, simple non-sexual nudity of both genders!)

Now unfortunately, the local rangers and Park authorities are not briefed on this and do not understand the distinction. That means that they will ignorantly cite women for being topfree, and the woman will have to take the citation to court rather than just pay the fine. Or maybe....just maaaaaay-beeeee....if a woman (or women as in NY) brought a copy of the code and asked the ranger who comes to confront them to cite the nature of the lewd conduct, it could cause that ranger to disengage and seek clarification...which could cause that local office to also seek clarification.

In any event, the only way to find out is to either re-email the man in HR, who seems more rational, and identify yourself so that he will reply fully, or have a woman or group of women do it and see what happens.
7/6/2009, 10:23 pm Send Email to ChuckFromSanO   Send PM to ChuckFromSanO
 
PghTFguy
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Re: Georgia parks

And we need case history.

Last edited by PghTFguy, 7/7/2009, 3:53 am
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venikx
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Re: Georgia parks

I asked about the consequences and here is what I was told...."The woman could be issued a citation for violating the Public Indecency Law 16-6-8 and could be instructed to leave the park. An arrest is possible for violating the Public Indecency Law 16-6-8 or for failure to follow leave the park as instructed".

---
~ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. --Albert Einstien ~

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7/9/2009, 9:35 am Send Email to venikx   Send PM to venikx
 
JMRuns
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Re: Georgia parks

I think Chuck has a very valid point. The law reads "A lewd appearance in a state of partial or complete nudity". To be in violation of the law the display would have to be lewd, not just topless.

If the original intent of the law had been to ban all nudity it would have said so, maybe by using the exact same words but with out the adjective lewd in the appearance. But the law does not, it only bans "a lewd appearance".

You would have to view this law it in light of various court opinions in that state.

(What the courts in other states have said on the subject is irrelevant unless the appellate courts in the home state have not taken an opinion and then you might be able to argue what other states have said.)

You would need to research both the application of this law in Georgia and any other case law in Georgia that has attempted to define the word lewd.

There has been an opinion by the Attorney General, way back in time, Feb 12, 1951, addressed to Mr. Norval E. Packwood indicates that "practice of nudism per se as advocated by your association"... "prohibited by law in Georgia". But this is not a binding legal opinion since it does not come from a court. It is not even a current opinion, but is just an old advisory opinion of the AG from almost 60 years ago.

You may be intrested in this more current news story >> Man not arrested for driving Nude in Georgia because no law prevented it.


Last edited by JMRuns, 7/9/2009, 12:51 pm
7/9/2009, 12:37 pm Send Email to JMRuns   Send PM to JMRuns
 
divenhike2002
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Re: Georgia parks

As a life time GA resident, I feel it is not worth the fight. The whole attitude of
GA govt. bodies is that nudity is associated with lewdness and a high sexual connotation.

There are several nude resorts in north GA which are very nice as well as areas deep in the national forrests. I don't know about the coastal areas other than Cumberland, but there is nude/topfree use of its beaches away from the dock area.

M
7/11/2009, 1:19 pm Send Email to divenhike2002   Send PM to divenhike2002
 


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