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venikx
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Group Project

This evolved from one of my posts in the nude forum. I would like to ask everyone to post ideas for NEW ways to advance topfreedom. This can be considered a brain-storming session so be creative and post an idea even if its not possible because it's sure to evolve into something that is(or the feedback might give you an all new idea). Fire at will!

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~ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. --Albert Einstien ~

My board ---> http://www.runboard.com/brewrite
10/27/2009, 8:55 pm Send Email to venikx   Send PM to venikx
 
Danglin
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Re: Group Project

I've been meeting locally with some groups in Austin to get them to encourage women to exercise the topfreedom they DO have, here.

Various ideas that are happening:
-topless during certain community bike rides
-toplessness at Barton Springs (to encourage other women to exercise their rights)
-for awhile we had Topless Tuesdays, to encourage women to appear topless at places all at the same time, to gain strength from numbers.
-there's a vary active burlesque scene in town--not topless bars, but women empowered groups who perform at non-traditional venues-demanding and getting respect for what they do
10/28/2009, 7:36 am Send Email to Danglin   Send PM to Danglin
 
tomwho
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Re: Group Project

You can also try a variation on the World Naked Bike Ride. Maybe just topfree as a protest.
http://www.worldnakedbikeride.org/

Last edited by tomwho, 10/28/2009, 11:09 am
10/28/2009, 11:08 am Send Email to tomwho   Send PM to tomwho
 
venikx
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Re: Group Project

I once tried to put a group together to perform a community service topfree, but it never went anywhere. Although I do think that something like the world naked bike ride is far better than any protest simply because its goal is to benefit the community(or the world) in some way. I say that because if you're goal is to raise money to stop global-warming or to find a cure for breast cancer then even people who are completely against topfreedom might be willing to consider taking part(if they do they may even learn that they enjoy it). That's my take on "service vs protest" anyway. emoticon

---
~ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. --Albert Einstien ~

My board ---> http://www.runboard.com/brewrite
10/28/2009, 11:57 am Send Email to venikx   Send PM to venikx
 
MissyI2711
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posticon Re: Group Project

Venikx - GREAT thread. I can't believe it, but I logged on today intending to start a very similar thread. In fact, I'm not sure whether to reply here (and perhaps hijack your thread) or post another thread (and risk splitting the group's attention btween two competing threads). I'm going to post here, and if I **** the bed in doing so, I guess I'll go post another thread elsewhere. Warning, this will be long and totally U.S.-centric:

1. Background:

I was 1st exposed to topfreedom travelling in Europe, tried sunbathing topless and liked it. I came to this board and noted that most of us are from the U.S., like me. Also, we have a range of interests among our members - some, like me, just really want it to be legal and accepted to go topless on the beach/pool/recreation area. Others, want to be topless in any public space, to breast feed, and / or to be nude in various places either public or on designated nude beaches, among I gather other things as well. I mean no disparagement to those interests, but they are not interesting to me for reasons which are irrelevant to this thread. However, I would expect that everyone on this board would support, at a minimum, a fight for greater legal & social acceptance of topfreedom in the beach/pool/recreation area setting (whether or not they also felt that greater freedoms should be available as well).

2. Problem:

We have discussed on other threads the problems of legal acceptance, social acceptance, and particularly social acceptance among younger women, of topfreedom. The reason I'm replying to this post is, I was reading an article about voluntarily childfree women and the social pressure they face from their peers for their choice to not have children. While that issue is irrelevant to this thread, the author pointed out that women, having gained the *right* to live their lives as they pleased (work or not, have children or not, abort a pregnancy or not), were effectively unable to enjoy that right due to being disrepected for actually exercising the right.

Now recall my trip report from South Beach (need link) where I discussed the young girls on the beach reacting to various ladies being topfree - they thought we were European and never considered topfreedom as normal or possible going TF themselves.

Our problem is, we have both legal and social hurdles to overcome in the U.S. Where TF is legal, it is practiced by a distinct minority. Most places it is illegal, period. This is a truism: whether you are trying to get the law changed or just change acceptance of something, greater numbers equals greater strength. For instance, if there is a TF legal fight to be had in Kansas, it will help if there are girls in Kansas who have gone TF on vacation someplace, because they may speak up and say "Hey, I like TF too. Make it legal!" or at least "What's the big deal? If they wanna be TF, let 'em". So, if we can get numbers on our side, and the youth is our future, we should do something to get more supporters/sympathizers, particularly amongst the younger crowd.

3. Action:

So, if you have a "protest" or "rally", what happens? First, your participant pool is limited to a maximum of everyone who agrees with your position already - and from there it declines because Cindy's dog has a vet appt. that day and Sheryl's mother died, and Jenny has the swine flu. OK, so who else comes? Well...photographers (particularly if you're going to show your tits), some media, and a bunch of people who don't like what you're doing and want to call you names. Witness the Raeliens' protest - I heard the only people that came were some dudes hoping to photograph boobies and...the Raeliens (for better or worse).

So, (here's where it gets fuzzy) I want to do something that takes women who are not inclined toward TF (or at least not in the U.S.) and makes them view it as socially acceptable. Here's my (fuzzy) idea: let's take a TF venue in the U.S. and take it from marginally TF to majority TF for a period of time. The hope being some women try TF for the first time, others become more comfortable with it, etc, and that will grow the base of sympathizers. So for example, take South Beach: a public beach where TF is apparently legal and 5% to maybe 20% (on a good day) of women are TF on any day - and on any given day a huge # of tourists from all over are on the beach. Suppose we took a weekend, and picked a portion of SoBe, and all went TF there for the day. In doing so, we raised the topless % to 50% or more in that area and girls who've never practiced TF may give it a try. Another venue would be one of the Vegas topless pools. Again, girls going to the pool that day would experience TF being very common and accepted, instead of just a minority TF (as I've heard through numerous reports tends to be the case).

I don't know how formal-seeming I would make it - the more like a protest you make it, the more of a spectacle you cause, which might cause women to dismiss it rather than embracing TF. At a minimum, it could be a nice social gathering, although again, I hate to make it seem like we're a discreet group. What do you folks think? It's really only the women who can act on this, so ladies, any enthusiasm for this?
10/28/2009, 3:36 pm Send Email to MissyI2711   Send PM to MissyI2711
 
venikx
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Re: Group Project

Thanks! and I totally agree with you MissyI2711, it really expanded on what I was trying to say. Also since you mention using different venues it gives me another idea... Perhaps if we could get the help of local businesses then they could start giving discounts for anyone who shows up topfree(male or female) or just generally promoting topfreedom in some way(I don't have any specifics at the moment..just thinking out loud). I also agree that the aim should be toward getting younger people involved, and as someone who is well within the 18-24 age range I will say that the biggest hurdle with that group is answering their question of "Why should I care?". To get them interested and actively involved that question needs to be answered.

---
~ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. --Albert Einstien ~

My board ---> http://www.runboard.com/brewrite
10/28/2009, 10:46 pm Send Email to venikx   Send PM to venikx
 
MissyI2711
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Re: Group Project

quote:
venikx wrote:

 [sic] Perhaps if we could get the help of local businesses then they could start giving discounts for anyone who shows up topfree(male or female) or just generally promoting topfreedom in some way

[sic] I will say that the biggest hurdle with that group is answering their question of "Why should I care?".

With respect to businesses, you could just use the Sunset Beach Bar (a bar in St. Martin, FWI) model: "Topless Women Drink Free". I guess you could do Topless Tuesdays. This assumes that whatever bar it is could legally have topless women in it. That type of promotion tends to run afoul of various local-yocal ordinances intended to control strip clubs and the general cohabitation of liquor & boobies, so...

Regarding the "Why should I care" question, that's exactly what I was trying to get at with my idea. As I see it, I'm only really here because I wish I could go TF when I want to (which for me is the beach/boat/pool scenario). If some activist came up to me and said "Hey, men can go TF in public places, but we can't - those *bastards* are *discriminating* against us. We should fight back.", frankly, I'd give a pretty ho-hum response to that. And I think most (younger particularly) women would too.

So, the concept of my idea (whether feasible or not) is to create an experience for women unfamiliar with TF that will make them see TF as something that is important to them. In other words, the answer to the "Why should I care?" question would be (hopefully) "Because you've had the opportunity to try TF, liked it, and would like to be able to do it again". I think that is the thing that a protest or demonstration can't accomplish - because those things lend themselves to becoming spectacles, they attract curiosity seekers, voyeurs and the like, as oppposed to creating an opportunity for women to experience TF.
10/29/2009, 9:59 am Send Email to MissyI2711   Send PM to MissyI2711
 
redheadelizabeth
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Re: Group Project

The major problems I would see with this are it would be very localized (confined to a place where you can find a critical mass) and there's a very fine line between promoting it and it becoming a spectacle. Concerning the latter, it has to be done so that women know about it and the goal of creating an example, yet at the same time downplay it enough so that deterrents to first-time observers/participators don't come in droves, i.e. males there only only to see the boobies. Finding that balance I think will be difficult, and it will be an effort largely confined. That's good for that one area, but will do essentially nothing to aid in becoming a wider-spread phenomenon.
10/29/2009, 4:43 pm Send Email to redheadelizabeth   Send PM to redheadelizabeth
 
venikx
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Re: Group Project

All great points, and perhaps we can avoid the whole issue of people being unsure about practicing topfreedom all together(and solve the promotion/spectacle line problem at the same time). How about we get the word topfreedom and its meaning out into mainstream use by itself. An "inform the nation campaign" if you will and perhaps even reference a good and solely informational site(one without images so no one can complain) as well links to sites that DO have images(like this board) for those who are interested in finding out more, and those who aren't are free to walk away.

---
~ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. --Albert Einstien ~

My board ---> http://www.runboard.com/brewrite
10/29/2009, 9:04 pm Send Email to venikx   Send PM to venikx
 
Danglin
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Re: Group Project

Back to Missy's suggestion, I think it's great. It would, obviously, be limited to a local area as an action. But, as she suggested SOBE is a tourist area in which folks from all over are likely to encounter topfree women for the first time. AND, if enough women are topfree, other women would join in, and take that experience home with them.

Almost unique about SOBE,it is not a separate beach that is easy to avoid if you're a tourist there who doesn't want to see bare breasts. IF you go there, you will see breasts. It's not like Hippie Hollow, or Black's beach, etc. that require a special trip to get there. It's the topless local/tourist interface that is most beneficial. The same could be said about Barton Springs in Austin. Tourists go there. Topless women go there. Just not enough topless women to make every woman comfortable going topless. But a CRITICAL MASS is what's needed.

I say go for it. It'll have to happen on a fairly regular basis to have a strong effect. good luck.
10/30/2009, 7:39 am Send Email to Danglin   Send PM to Danglin
 


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