Page: 1 2
MissyI2711
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 04-2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 57
Karma: 14 (+14/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
TopFreedomFest 2010
I started this in another thread. Given the replies I received, I believe this merits its own thread.
1. Background:
I was 1st exposed to topfreedom travelling in Europe, tried sunbathing topless and liked it. I came to this board and noted that most of us are from the U.S., like me. Also, we have a range of interests among our members - some, like me, just really want it to be legal and accepted to go topless on the beach/pool/recreation area. Others, want to be topless in any public space, to breast feed, and / or to be nude in various places either public or on designated nude beaches, among I gather other things as well. I mean no disparagement to those interests, but they are not interesting to me for reasons which are irrelevant to this thread. However, I would expect that everyone on this board would support, at a minimum, a fight for greater legal & social acceptance of topfreedom in the beach/pool/recreation area setting (whether or not they also felt that greater freedoms should be available as well).
2. Problem:
We have discussed on other threads the problems of legal acceptance, social acceptance, and particularly social acceptance among younger women, of topfreedom. The reason I'm replying to this post is, I was reading an article about voluntarily childfree women and the social pressure they face from their peers for their choice to not have children. While that issue is irrelevant to this thread, the author pointed out that women, having gained the *right* to live their lives as they pleased (work or not, have children or not, abort a pregnancy or not), were effectively unable to enjoy that right due to being disrepected for actually exercising the right.
Now recall my trip report from South Beach (need link) where I discussed the young girls on the beach reacting to various ladies being topfree - they thought we were European and never considered topfreedom as normal or possible going TF themselves.
Our problem is, we have both legal and social hurdles to overcome in the U.S. Where TF is legal, it is practiced by a distinct minority. Most places it is illegal, period. This is a truism: whether you are trying to get the law changed or just change acceptance of something, greater numbers equals greater strength. For instance, if there is a TF legal fight to be had in Kansas, it will help if there are girls in Kansas who have gone TF on vacation someplace, because they may speak up and say "Hey, I like TF too. Make it legal!" or at least "What's the big deal? If they wanna be TF, let 'em". So, if we can get numbers on our side, and the youth is our future, we should do something to get more supporters/sympathizers, particularly amongst the younger crowd.
3. Action:
So, if you have a "protest" or "rally", what happens? First, your participant pool is limited to a maximum of everyone who agrees with your position already - and from there it declines because Cindy's dog has a vet appt. that day and Sheryl's mother died, and Jenny has the swine flu. OK, so who else comes? Well...photographers (particularly if you're going to show your tits), some media, and a bunch of people who don't like what you're doing and want to call you names. Witness the Raeliens' protest - I heard the only people that came were some dudes hoping to photograph boobies and...the Raeliens (for better or worse).
So, (here's where it gets fuzzy) I want to do something that takes women who are not inclined toward TF (or at least not in the U.S.) and makes them view it as socially acceptable. Here's my (fuzzy) idea: let's take a TF venue in the U.S. and take it from marginally TF to majority TF for a period of time. The hope being some women try TF for the first time, others become more comfortable with it, etc, and that will grow the base of sympathizers. So for example, take South Beach: a public beach where TF is apparently legal and 5% to maybe 20% (on a good day) of women are TF on any day - and on any given day a huge # of tourists from all over are on the beach. Suppose we took a weekend, and picked a portion of SoBe, and all went TF there for the day. In doing so, we raised the topless % to 50% or more in that area and girls who've never practiced TF may give it a try. Another venue would be one of the Vegas topless pools. Again, girls going to the pool that day would experience TF being very common and accepted, instead of just a minority TF (as I've heard through numerous reports tends to be the case).
I don't know how formal-seeming I would make it - the more like a protest you make it, the more of a spectacle you cause, which might cause women to dismiss it rather than embracing TF. At a minimum, it could be a nice social gathering, although again, I hate to make it seem like we're a discreet group. What do you folks think? It's really only the women who can act on this, so ladies, any enthusiasm for this?
|
|
10/30/2009, 10:20 am
|
Send Email to MissyI2711
Send PM to MissyI2711
|
MissyI2711
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 04-2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 57
Karma: 14 (+14/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: TopFreedomFest 2010
HERE IS ADDITIONAL ABRIDGED DISCUSSION FROM THE OTHER THREAD, TO AVOID DUPLICATION:
Veniks said:
I also agree that the aim should be toward getting younger people involved, and as someone who is well within the 18-24 age range I will say that the biggest hurdle with that group is answering their question of "Why should I care?". To get them interested and actively involved that question needs to be answered.
Missy said:
Regarding the "Why should I care" question, that's exactly what I was trying to get at with my idea. As I see it, I'm only really here because I wish I could go TF when I want to (which for me is the beach/boat/pool scenario). If some activist came up to me and said "Hey, men can go TF in public places, but we can't - those *bastards* are *discriminating* against us. We should fight back.", frankly, I'd give a pretty ho-hum response to that. And I think most (younger particularly) women would too.
So, the concept of my idea (whether feasible or not) is to create an experience for women unfamiliar with TF that will make them see TF as something that is important to them. In other words, the answer to the "Why should I care?" question would be (hopefully) "Because you've had the opportunity to try TF, liked it, and would like to be able to do it again". I think that is the thing that a protest or demonstration can't accomplish - because those things lend themselves to becoming spectacles, they attract curiosity seekers, voyeurs and the like, as oppposed to creating an opportunity for women to experience TF.
Redhead Elizabith said:
The major problems I would see with this are it would be very localized (confined to a place where you can find a critical mass) and there's a very fine line between promoting it and it becoming a spectacle. Concerning the latter, it has to be done so that women know about it and the goal of creating an example, yet at the same time downplay it enough so that deterrents to first-time observers/participators don't come in droves, i.e. males there only only to see the boobies. Finding that balance I think will be difficult, and it will be an effort largely confined. That's good for that one area, but will do essentially nothing to aid in becoming a wider-spread phenomenon.
Danglin said:
Back to Missy's suggestion, I think it's great. It would, obviously, be limited to a local area as an action. But, as she suggested SOBE is a tourist area in which folks from all over are likely to encounter topfree women for the first time. AND, if enough women are topfree, other women would join in, and take that experience home with them.
Almost unique about SOBE,it is not a separate beach that is easy to avoid if you're a tourist there who doesn't want to see bare breasts. IF you go there, you will see breasts. It's not like Hippie Hollow, or Black's beach, etc. that require a special trip to get there. It's the topless local/tourist interface that is most beneficial. The same could be said about Barton Springs in Austin. Tourists go there. Topless women go there. Just not enough topless women to make every woman comfortable going topless. But a CRITICAL MASS is what's needed.
I say go for it. It'll have to happen on a fairly regular basis to have a strong effect. good luck.
Missy said:
The major hurdles for my idea have been fleshed out, those being:
1. Limited to very small space geographically;
2. Difficult to promote w/o causing spectacle;
3. Limited to one occurrence, unless the event is repeated;
There is also;
4. Relatively high cost to participate (gotta fly to Miami if you aren't local)
Ok, so despite those drawbacks, I still think this CAN be beneficial in terms of gaining converts to TF. In fact, Veniks' idea about a website gave me an idea to help overcome the time/locality problems inherent in my idea: everyone wants to see our tits, so let's use that to get our message out. We've got the greatest billboards known to mankind parked right on our chests! The idea is still fuzzy, but we could produce a video & photoshow of the event, showing TF in a positive light, including interviews and probably some boobs too (have to think about that). The idea being to use the power of the internet to solve problems 1-3 above. We'd have to debate exactly what how to do it, what to show, etc, but I think the idea has legs and I think the same about the original idea.
Last edited by MissyI2711, 10/30/2009, 10:34 am
|
|
10/30/2009, 10:32 am
|
Send Email to MissyI2711
Send PM to MissyI2711
|
Danglin
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 06-2008
Posts: 71
Karma: 2 (+5/-3)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: TopFreedomFest 2010
Your idea has legs, among other things!
|
|
10/30/2009, 11:02 am
|
Send Email to Danglin
Send PM to Danglin
|
MissyI2711
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 04-2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 57
Karma: 14 (+14/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: TopFreedomFest 2010
So, at this point, having had the benefit of the discussions reproduced above, I'll lay out a vision of the event, subject to change, etc, but here's the thumbnail sketch:
A 3-day weekend event in South Beach, Miami, featuring topfree enjoyment of the beach, perhaps in a different section each day. Maybe one day up by the Delano/South Seas and another day between 5th-10th Sts. Maybe one of the days we concentrate on one of the pools, like Delano, South Seas or Gansevoort. Not a high level of advertisement or spectacle, but maybe some subtle things. Maybe we could have cards to hand out to girls that seem interested or are already topless with our website on them? Maybe we have bikini bottoms made w/ our website on them? I thought one of the nights we could have a little happy hour reception or something? We could do things like send groups of us for walks down South Beach, so that all day for all three days there would be groups of women walking topless up and down SoBe? If we had enough people, we could probably get a discount on hotel & airfare? And from this, we could produce some kind of photo/video show to distribute? We could also reach out to sister organizations like gotopless.org and invite them to participate.
Last edited by MissyI2711, 10/30/2009, 11:53 am
|
|
10/30/2009, 11:07 am
|
Send Email to MissyI2711
Send PM to MissyI2711
|
meredith2kp4
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 07-2004
Posts: 703
Karma: 13 (+43/-30)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: TopFreedomFest 2010
I suggest that you review what happened in Rochester, New York leading up to the legalization of topfreedom (by court decision) in New York State. I don't remember the exact date, but I think in was around 1993.
Googling should bring up news reports; for example there were articles in the New York Times and other newspapers, as well as reports in N magazine and other naturist publications. One of the organizers (and, I think, the only male in the group) was Morley Schloss, who is now one of the owners of Sunsport Gardens in Florida.
(Also posted on another thread.)
|
|
10/30/2009, 3:05 pm
|
Send Email to meredith2kp4
Send PM to meredith2kp4
|
MissyI2711
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 04-2008
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 57
Karma: 14 (+14/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: TopFreedomFest 2010
quote:
meredith2kp4 wrote:
I suggest that you review what happened in Rochester, New York leading up to the legalization of topfreedom (by court decision) in New York State. I don't remember the exact date, but I think in was around 1993.
Googling should bring up news reports; for example there were articles in the New York Times and other newspapers, as well as reports in N magazine and other naturist publications. One of the organizers (and, I think, the only male in the group) was Morley Schloss, who is now one of the owners of Sunsport Gardens in Florida.
(Also posted on another thread.)
Alright, but see, that's exactly the issue: the NY thing is court-decision, rights-argument scenario. Here is a quote from that article:
"There's not much danger of that. Women seem glad to have their breasts decriminalized, but not eager to take advantage."
So, see? They've won the right, but the culture of topfreedom is missing. So, that's what my event was designed to get at - the cultural, not necessarily the legal. Topfree is already legal on South Beach. What I'm trying to do is create a scenario that makes women feel that topfree is something they actually WANT to do.
|
|
11/1/2009, 12:42 pm
|
Send Email to MissyI2711
Send PM to MissyI2711
|
TBirder
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 07-2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 265
Karma: 2 (+6/-4)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: TopFreedomFest 2010
Here in Ontario, women have had the right to go topless for at least ten years.
However, there are very few who take advantage of that.I don't know if it's a guilt factor from being raised in s strict household or not wanting to be the first to take their top off.
John
|
|
11/1/2009, 3:31 pm
|
Send Email to TBirder
Send PM to TBirder
|
venikx
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 11-2007
Posts: 41
Karma: 2 (+2/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: TopFreedomFest 2010
I am all for this plan, and while there is no possible way for me to get to Miami for this event I will help out however I can from here.
I will also try to put together an information only website(which I suggested in another thread[for those of you who haven't read that thread the website would either lead back to here or to wherever we decided it should go). I will get back to you on that though.
---
~ Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. --Albert Einstien ~
My board ---> http://www.runboard.com/brewrite
|
|
11/1/2009, 4:51 pm
|
Send Email to venikx
Send PM to venikx
|
DavyJ1
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 04-2009
Posts: 80
Karma: -1 (+2/-3)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: TopFreedomFest 2010
quote:
TBirder wrote:
Here in Ontario, women have had the right to go topless for at least ten years.
However, there are very few who take advantage of that.I don't know if it's a guilt factor from being raised in s strict household or not wanting to be the first to take their top off.
John
Ditto for Ohio. There are some lakes where you will very occasionally see someone topfree, but it is not common.
Missy, I wonder if it would make sense to try to have the event in several different locations, all on the same weekend. I might suggest SoBe (of course), Hippie Hollow or Barton Springs, Texas, Caesars Creek or Alum Creek, Ohio, Boulder Reservoir, Colorado, and certainly somewhere in California for a start. Last summer there was a "World's largest skinny dipping" event (or something like that) which was held in numerous sites simultaneously, had many participants and attracted quite a bit of favorable press coverage. That might also be a model to look at in organizing this event.
|
|
11/17/2009, 3:29 pm
|
Send Email to DavyJ1
Send PM to DavyJ1
|
123jo
Registered user
Global user
Registered: 07-2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 142
Karma: 25 (+25/-0)
|
|
Reply | Quote
|
|
Re: TopFreedomFest 2010
quote:
DavyJ1 wrote:
Missy, I wonder if it would make sense to try to have the event in several different locations, all on the same weekend. I might suggest SoBe (of course), Hippie Hollow or Barton Springs, Texas, Caesars Creek or Alum Creek, Ohio, Boulder Reservoir, Colorado, and certainly somewhere in California for a start. Last summer there was a "World's largest skinny dipping" event (or something like that) which was held in numerous sites simultaneously, had many participants and attracted quite a bit of favorable press coverage. That might also be a model to look at in organizing this event.
I like this idea. It would enable more of us to attend. Downside is there would be less of us in any one place.
quote:
MissyI2711 wrote:
If we had enough people, we could probably get a discount on hotel & airfare? And from this, we could produce some kind of photo/video show to distribute? We could also reach out to sister organizations like gotopless.org and invite them to participate.
This brings much to my mind here. Maybe thinking really big here but thinking along the lines of critical mass inviting many more. As much as we can think of. Examples could include:
USA Topfreedom Group
Topfree Texas Group
gotopless
How about thinking outside the box
Goingbraless group
They have a topfree section
Jordan Matter and all the women he photographed topfree
Get Naked 4 Cancer
007b breast feeding sisters
Thinking about this one with somone like Andy Golub with his bodypainting in public.
Could be another way to get some to drop thier tops.
What do you think? Bottom line is I think with some work it could be a great event.
|
|
11/17/2009, 8:34 pm
|
Send PM to 123jo
|
Add a reply
Page: 1 2
Powered by AkBBS 0.9.5b - Link to us
- Blogs
- Hall of Honour
- Chat
Click here to get your own free message board
|
You are not logged in (login)
Board's time is: 11/25/2009, 12:45 pm
|
|
|